Suspension Examination:

[n_green]

I had to go back out and see him today, the shims he have me were 6mm ID... No dramas new 8mm ID shims swapped over.

While I was there I spoke to him about the shock and showed him the rest of the video. He is of the opinion that the LSC is a bit soft causing it to ride low in the stroke, any HSC impacts during this causes it to blow through and hit the bump stop causing the kick in the pants I've been getting.
His recommendation was to add a few clicks of LSC and see how it goes which was my plan anyway.
But since I was there I got curious and asked about the rear spring, currently with a 6.0 and 13mm preload I end up with 25mm static/98mm race. He advised that I could continue to use the current spring, however ideally going up a rate or two would benefit me as it would encourage the rear to sit up and the stroke and I'd be able to keep the LSC clickers where they are. He must of felt sorry for me because he gave me a great discount on a new 6.4 spring. I guess this means I'm now officially a fat arse

 

[Jakobi]

It'll be interesting to see how you go. You may find jumping up the rear spring that it will ride up in the stroke nicer and be more plush in the initial stroke. It might ramp up a bit too fast and exacerbate the fork issues you had. Thats a really considerable jump up from stock in the back end in comparison to the front. Seat time will tell though.

 

[n_green]

True, I was a bit worried about it but was told so long as I make sure the race sag with the new spring is the same it shouldn't unbalance the bike. One thing is for sure it should make it obvious if my HSC issue was due to it being too firm or too soft.

One thing I have noticed is that on my '11 the 6.0 rear was perfect, 9mm preload was 32mm static and 100mm race whereas on the the '14 it seems its at least one rate, possibly two rates too soft. The tuner commented that whatever chassis/linkage/swingarm changes took place for '14 have caused more weight to be placed on the spring, hence a firmer spring is required on the '14 chassis.

Plus I still have the .50 fork springs sitting here, if the 6.4 rear upsets front/rear balance I can step up to the .50's, they were too stiff for use with the 6.0 rear, but may be ok with the 6.4.

Ah suspension, so much fun to get right.

 

[Jakobi]

Its all trial and error and getting everything to work together.

Its odd that you mention your 2011 chasis preffered lighter springs. On my 2010 I favoured .46 fork springs and a 5.6 rear, yet the best I've found on the new chasis is the .44 and 5.2 shock. I think a 5.4 will work with some damping adjustments. The 2010 shock had a fair amount of work.

One thing for sure is that the new chasis responds much better to less race sag. 98mm feels magic on it, where the older chasis felt best to me around the 105mm range.

 

[nato]

I wish I stepped my fork springs up one more size as it feels like once they have settled in tjey are not much better than standard?

 

[swazi_matt]

I'd like to have the bushlands machined down on mine too, but obviously too far to travel for me to drop in

forgive my ignorance, but what is a bushlands (is it ozzie for something the rest of the world calls by its propper name ;-))

 

[Jakobi]

Its the clearance where the bushing floats. So on the lower legs, there is a groove machined into the leg where the inner bushing locates. Not enough clearance and the bushing can bind up when the fork leg flexes.

 

[n_green]

forgive my ignorance, but what is a bushlands (is it ozzie for something the rest of the world calls by its propper name ;-))

As Jake said, what the tuner we are referring to does is machine the outer edges of the bushing land on the inner tube, he effectively rounds them off a bit so that when that bushing travels past the bottom triples it can move/twist a bit and won't bind up.
See the attached (crappy hand drawn) picture. The dark shades areas are what he would machine in.

 

[Simmo737]

This is what if did to my forks after a few revalves it's pretty close to stock beta

I followed leons ( used to be here but bought a beta) thread on betariders.

I think the beta red legs may have a different mv gap....Steve?

Inners have been bushing land machined.

No bottoming for me with this but any less than 350cc will have you running close, 330 and it's clank!

Reb
12.15
20.1(3)
17.1
14.15
11.2(2)

Mid
12.15
20.1(4)
11.2
15.15
16.15
18.15

(May end up less float but currently like it)

Base
28.1
12.1
32.15(2)
32.1(4)
14.1
24.1
22.1
20.1
18.1
10.2(2)

Will be adding 32.1

.48 spring and 5.8 rear.

350cc maxima 7wt racing ff comp6 reb 15 .75 turn pfp

I've gone away from winding in the reb till just b4 packing, I like less rebound now that the back has less lsr, and you can run more comp without harshness.

This is the Leon thread.

http://www.betarider.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=144

I thought that the beta being heavier and a 4t that it would work well with my weight, springs and Leon has ridden a lot of good suspension is I would trust his judgement, as well as NP on Dbw whom rates the beta valving.

 

[n_green]

This is what if did to my forks after a few revalves it's pretty close to stock beta

I followed leons ( used to be here but bought a beta) thread on betariders.

I think the beta red legs may have a different mv gap....Steve?

Inners have been bushing land machined.

No bottoming for me with this but any less than 350cc will have you running close, 330 and it's clank!

Reb
12.15
20.1(3)
17.1
14.15
11.2(2)

Mid
12.15
20.1(4)
11.2
15.15
16.15
18.15

(May end up less float but currently like it)

Base
28.1
12.1
32.15(2)
32.1(4)
14.1
24.1
22.1
20.1
18.1
10.2(2)

Will be adding 32.1

.48 spring and 5.8 rear.

350cc maxima 7wt racing ff comp6 reb 15 .75 turn pfp

I've gone away from winding in the reb till just b4 packing, I like less rebound now that the back has less lsr, and you can run more comp without harshness.

This is the Leon thread.

http://www.betarider.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=144

I thought that the beta being heavier and a 4t that it would work well with my weight, springs and Leon has ridden a lot of good suspension is I would trust his judgement, as well as NP on Dbw whom rates the beta valving.

Hmm interesting, your rebound stack is a lot lighter then mine, MV is similar but the BV seems to be stiffer and with less bleed (mine still runs a 12.1 bleed shim).

My forks went back together on the weekend, used Jakes method of bleeding/filling them (seems surprisingly easy, when reading Jakes write-up I was thinking it would be simialar to brain surgery ) I still doubt I got a perfect bleed, however there will be a lot less air in there compared to when the tuner did it last time.

I also put 350ml of oil in the outers, tuner put in 330ml last time, having said that 50ml had disappeared, only 275ml came back out from each

Just have to wait on the head to get back from being re-machined and button it all back together and I'll go test it out to see the results.

 

[Jakobi]

Yeah I went into some depth writing but when actually doing the work its a piece of pie. The more times you can flip the cart and then get a small purge the better. The air hides around the outer edge of the piston. Its a poor design.

On the mid I'I've been running this

MV Comp (from piston)
12x.10 - Bleed
20x.10 (3)
18x.1
16x.1
14x.1
12x.1
11x.20 (2)
15x.15
16x.15
0.4mm float

Rebound (from piston)
20x.10 (2)
12x.10 - bleed moved down to crossover
20x.10
18x.10
16x.10
14x.10
12x.10 - from BV
11x 2.5 - collar

I'm thinking of addressing a few things on the rebound, and possibly opening up the float. I may pull the 12x.1 from the bottom of the comp stack and then slide it over as a bleed on the rebound. Or maybe I'll pull the 12 from the bottom of the rebound, move it to the bleed, and then drop a 14x.2 in at the bottom of the rebound to beef up the HSR substantially.

I'll have to do some more thinking before anythings in stone though. Still got 15 hrs before its due for its next service so will hold out till then.

 

[n_green]

Another point of interest, Simmo have you measured your ics spring? Mine is a different length to Jakes (same length as Natos??).
Can't remember how that affects things though? Jake help a brother out?

 

[Jakobi]

I can't remember the length of mine, but maybe they are similar? I think 107mm rings a bell. I think you said yours were 100mm but I don't know how you accurately measured them if you didnt disassemble the ICS?

The PFP adj changes the preload on the spring, as does the length of the spring. The PFP has a range of around 10mm approx, and we all know what effect even a half a turn has on the fork action. Imagine the difference in feel between a spring of the same rate that has 7mm difference.

 

[n_green]

I can't remember the length of mine, but maybe they are similar? I think 107mm rings a bell. I think you said yours were 100mm but I don't know how you accurately measured them if you didnt disassemble the ICS?



The PFP adj changes the preload on the spring, as does the length of the spring. The PFP has a range of around 10mm approx, and we all know what effect even a half a turn has on the fork action. Imagine the difference in feel between a spring of the same rate that has 7mm difference.

This time round I accurately measured them. They are 100mm. I pulled the pfp assembly apart to clean all the grease out of the comp clicker assembly.

 

[Jakobi]

I wish I could remember the length of mine. I'll check my notes in the morning. I may have wrote it down.

 

[n_green]

Based on my measurements the ICS spring rate is about 2.0 kg/mm.
Sound right?

 

[swazi_matt]

Its the clearance where the bushing floats. So on the lower legs, there is a groove machined into the leg where the inner bushing locates. Not enough clearance and the bushing can bind up when the fork leg flexes.

ahh ok. so these are not like the sachs that rattle around in the tubes!?

 

[Jakobi]

Based on my measurements the ICS spring rate is about 2.0 kg/mm.
Sound right?

Affirmative. Stock ICS is 2.0kg/mm - Nato had after market 1.8kg/mm installed with his. His BV was much firmer though.

ahh ok. so these are not like the sachs that rattle around in the tubes!?

Not at all. It still blows me away how much movement there is between the upper and lower on the Sachs, but with well over 300hrs on mine they have held up really well (with TTX carts). I installed them on the new bike for a ride early in the pic too. Could very happily run them on this bike.

 

[Jakobi]

Checked my notes tonight and I didn't document the length of the ICS spring! I should have wrote it down. I found some notes which I believe were the dimensions of Natos. His definitely floated around much more than mine. For some reason 107mm keeps popping to mind.

 

[Fred1956]

Checked my notes tonight and I didn't document the length of the ICS spring! I should have wrote it down. I found some notes which I believe were the dimensions of Natos. His definitely floated around much more than mine. For some reason 107mm keeps popping to mind.

on the zokes I had down from the 13 model, 107mm was indeed the length of the ICS spring