The Lectron - Review (vs SmartCarb)
- Thread starter Jakobi
- Start date
Motosportz
New member
Completely programmable from the bike EFI system? 
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Today I went about installing the replacement metering rod. It came in a small baggy and was labelled R.080. The bag had some lengths written on it for 36mm and 38mm which were to be starting points.
Initially the length of the new rod was a bit longer. I have a picture I may upload later. The old rod also showed some wear at the top where it rides in a spring within the slide. This was a bit concerning considering I only have a handful of rides on it. Not sure what will happen in the long term.
I also had a real mind bong when I decided to test the fit of the D washer and rod into the slide without the rest of the assembly. What happened was that the D washer was allowed to drop down lower than normal and somehow it managed to bind itself into the slide, so I was stuck with a new rod in the slide. I must have lost 2 hours trying to work out how to remove it without damaging the slide, the rod, or the D washer assembly. A few panic messages to Corey which he'll find in his inbox.. Sorry Corey
..In the end I let frustration get the best of me and gave the rod a firm whack against the bench hoping that the rod wouldn't bend. It popped out, and game was back on. The small E clip that holds the rod (similar to keihin needle clip but twice as small) got sacrificed in the process. I ended up using a Keihin clip and hope it doesn't cause any issues.
I left the Keihin clip on the metering rod. It seems to lock in much firmer on the rod and doesn't rotate around. As long as the gap is indexed aganist the flat side of the D washer it drops in, and appears to work well.
I also found the cause for the soft clicks and trouble I was having feeling them. The grub screw had backed out and wasn't making very much contact against the clicker. It also warped the small flat washer that sits between it and the circlip. I set the grub screw to where it has good feel on the clicker and its much easier to work with now. I wish I could have straightened out the small washer on top some more, but it seems to work fine the way it is.
I went to measure up the length from the top of the slide to the bottom of the metering rod as per the baggy, and hit the next hurdle. Even at the very shortest length possible I was reading above the recommendation. More stress and frustration and thoughts about if I had been given the wrong needle hit me. I decided I would still try it, after all what did I have to lose? I started tuning with the MR at 10 clicks out from fully rich, which didn't align with what was written on the packet even closely. Needless to say the bike started and was extremely rich and breaking up everywhere, even on a cold engine with the off choke. I kept leaning it about 10 clicks at a time until the bike became ridable and then went to work fine tuning. I'm still not sure where I am at click wise, or length wise. It would have to be well over 60 clicks.
The good news is that this metering rod is much more what I expected. I have a much cleaner bottom end, without the lack of torque, an exposive mid range transition, and what seems to be pleanty of over rev however I haven't wound it right out yet.
Now I can say I'm impressed. I just need to get it out for a day in the bush to be sure its not too lean in the midrange. Off the bottom I can easily take off in 2nd gear from a stand still up a hill without it having the flat feeling it had previously, and at 1/8th throttle its lost the excessive blubbering. Its got that nice grunty bottom end that will easily loft the wheel when off the pipe that I had become acustomed too. Welcome back! It was really hard to get a feel for the midrange due to the rain we've been having. On the road it was very snappy and lofty! In the mud and grass it just broke traction.
Power curve wise it feels like the engine is doing what its meant to do. I run the ignition in the advanced map, and have minimal tension on the pv governor so it opens hard and fast. I also have a race ported cylinder which favours top end, slightly timed to give a bit more mid than all out peak.
I'm really looking forward to getting some seat time in the bush! Excited much! FINALLY!!
Initially the length of the new rod was a bit longer. I have a picture I may upload later. The old rod also showed some wear at the top where it rides in a spring within the slide. This was a bit concerning considering I only have a handful of rides on it. Not sure what will happen in the long term.
I also had a real mind bong when I decided to test the fit of the D washer and rod into the slide without the rest of the assembly. What happened was that the D washer was allowed to drop down lower than normal and somehow it managed to bind itself into the slide, so I was stuck with a new rod in the slide. I must have lost 2 hours trying to work out how to remove it without damaging the slide, the rod, or the D washer assembly. A few panic messages to Corey which he'll find in his inbox.. Sorry Corey
..In the end I let frustration get the best of me and gave the rod a firm whack against the bench hoping that the rod wouldn't bend. It popped out, and game was back on. The small E clip that holds the rod (similar to keihin needle clip but twice as small) got sacrificed in the process. I ended up using a Keihin clip and hope it doesn't cause any issues.I left the Keihin clip on the metering rod. It seems to lock in much firmer on the rod and doesn't rotate around. As long as the gap is indexed aganist the flat side of the D washer it drops in, and appears to work well.
I also found the cause for the soft clicks and trouble I was having feeling them. The grub screw had backed out and wasn't making very much contact against the clicker. It also warped the small flat washer that sits between it and the circlip. I set the grub screw to where it has good feel on the clicker and its much easier to work with now. I wish I could have straightened out the small washer on top some more, but it seems to work fine the way it is.
I went to measure up the length from the top of the slide to the bottom of the metering rod as per the baggy, and hit the next hurdle. Even at the very shortest length possible I was reading above the recommendation. More stress and frustration and thoughts about if I had been given the wrong needle hit me. I decided I would still try it, after all what did I have to lose? I started tuning with the MR at 10 clicks out from fully rich, which didn't align with what was written on the packet even closely. Needless to say the bike started and was extremely rich and breaking up everywhere, even on a cold engine with the off choke. I kept leaning it about 10 clicks at a time until the bike became ridable and then went to work fine tuning. I'm still not sure where I am at click wise, or length wise. It would have to be well over 60 clicks.
The good news is that this metering rod is much more what I expected. I have a much cleaner bottom end, without the lack of torque, an exposive mid range transition, and what seems to be pleanty of over rev however I haven't wound it right out yet.
Now I can say I'm impressed. I just need to get it out for a day in the bush to be sure its not too lean in the midrange. Off the bottom I can easily take off in 2nd gear from a stand still up a hill without it having the flat feeling it had previously, and at 1/8th throttle its lost the excessive blubbering. Its got that nice grunty bottom end that will easily loft the wheel when off the pipe that I had become acustomed too. Welcome back! It was really hard to get a feel for the midrange due to the rain we've been having. On the road it was very snappy and lofty! In the mud and grass it just broke traction.
Power curve wise it feels like the engine is doing what its meant to do. I run the ignition in the advanced map, and have minimal tension on the pv governor so it opens hard and fast. I also have a race ported cylinder which favours top end, slightly timed to give a bit more mid than all out peak.
I'm really looking forward to getting some seat time in the bush! Excited much! FINALLY!!
Diggs345
Gold Level Site Supporter
Jake , the clicker on mine had stopped working , i stripped mine dow to find the part in the end of the grub screw had fallen out , i managed to get it back in though ... But for how long ?? , it may work better with a spring and ball bearing .
I need to chase my parts up as of now im still waiting , i have found that since installing the anti flood valves that it will now flood of its own accord when stood upright , normally when your about to start a race or just filled with fuel , it may be due to the float level being high though .
I need to chase my parts up as of now im still waiting , i have found that since installing the anti flood valves that it will now flood of its own accord when stood upright , normally when your about to start a race or just filled with fuel , it may be due to the float level being high though .
Jakobi
Super Moderator
No flooding issues here Diggs. I'm running the original float height (20mm from top), but haven't checked it since initial install. I'll double check things when the carb comes out.
The damage to the E clip was entirely my own fault. I busted it up probing at it and trying to remove it from the metering rod while it was still in the slide. I'd rather damage the E clip than the slide or the metering rod. In the end it was just a hiccup. Note to self and others - don't drop the metering rod in without the spring below it. More concerning was the wear pattern around the top of the old metering rod.
Corey has confirmed the new MRs are longer, and as such the stock measurement should also reflect that. I'll be measuring to see where I ended up shortly.
The damage to the E clip was entirely my own fault. I busted it up probing at it and trying to remove it from the metering rod while it was still in the slide. I'd rather damage the E clip than the slide or the metering rod. In the end it was just a hiccup. Note to self and others - don't drop the metering rod in without the spring below it. More concerning was the wear pattern around the top of the old metering rod.
Corey has confirmed the new MRs are longer, and as such the stock measurement should also reflect that. I'll be measuring to see where I ended up shortly.
Diggs345
Gold Level Site Supporter
It's seems to me those settings are only a guideline , if I set my float height to the reccemended spec it would empty the bowl shortly after half throttle , mine is pretty close , for racing its spot on , trail riding is 90 percent , but I can live with that , I was hoping the new bowl and other parts had come by now but no show yet .
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Seems strange. Sure your filter or something else isn't impeeding the flow of fuel? Fuel cap and breather line isn't partially blocked? I'm sure you've been through it all before though.
It seems that the Smart Carb can be a great thing, but its taken quite a bit of time to get just right. Its also a bit tricky as APT currently have a lot going on in development, as well as sorting our issues. Kudos to Corey for doing as much as he can and/or has. It must be tuff keeping on top of everything and everyone. For us though, the single source for parts and knowledge also makes it a bit trickier to charge on. If I need Keihin parts, they're easily available just about everywhere. I'd love to see APT get to this point too.
It seems that the Smart Carb can be a great thing, but its taken quite a bit of time to get just right. Its also a bit tricky as APT currently have a lot going on in development, as well as sorting our issues. Kudos to Corey for doing as much as he can and/or has. It must be tuff keeping on top of everything and everyone. For us though, the single source for parts and knowledge also makes it a bit trickier to charge on. If I need Keihin parts, they're easily available just about everywhere. I'd love to see APT get to this point too.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Just measured up the length from the top of the slide to the tip of the rod. On the packet its listed to use 3.727" for a 38mm and Corey has said to add 0.2" to that for the additional length of the newer rods. Thats 3.927" which in metric terms is 99.75mm.
Laying the slide on my metal rule and eyeballing it appears to be 100mm. I'll double check it with the verniers now and take some pics, but definitely in the ballpark.
Laying the slide on my metal rule and eyeballing it appears to be 100mm. I'll double check it with the verniers now and take some pics, but definitely in the ballpark.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Sorry for the poor quality pics. First is the difference between the 2 needles. If you look hard you can see the wear pattern at the top of the old one. Its gone in deep enough to leave a groove you can catch with your fingernail.
The second is the final measurement I ended up with yesterday (99.60mm/3.921"). Very close to the recommended 3.927". I also double checked the E clip on the rod, and it hadn't moved, so I'll keep using it for now. I shouldn't need to make much more than a couple clicks adjustment now either.
The second is the final measurement I ended up with yesterday (99.60mm/3.921"). Very close to the recommended 3.927". I also double checked the E clip on the rod, and it hadn't moved, so I'll keep using it for now. I shouldn't need to make much more than a couple clicks adjustment now either.
It is a "wave-washer" acting like a spring to keep tension on the rod and adjusting mechanism from above. So better not make it flat
Michael
It will fall out again. What you can do is take a piece of steel and make a small indentation with a drill bit that is a bit larger in diameter then the grub screw. Put the tip of the grub screw into the indentation and start tapping with a hammer carefully. You want to close the tip just as much that it will not fall out but still can move.
I converted to a steel ball/spring setup from a WP suspension clicker setup, but that required re-drilling and tapping the hole.
Michael
Jakobi
Super Moderator
It is a "wave-washer" acting like a spring to keep tension on the rod and adjusting mechanism from above. So better not make it flat
Michael
Never realised that.. Its still the shape it was
Heading out for a ride in the morning..Thinking about it some more. The spring below the D washer also puts pressure/tension up against the entire assembly from below. I think you could very possibly remove the wave washer completely and it would still work just fine, although he adjuster probably wouldn't turn as easily against the circlip as it does against the washer.
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No, the spring for the rod and the wave washer work independently. Without the wave washer the "clicks" would not work. Looking forward to the report with the new rod!
Michael
Diggs345
Gold Level Site Supporter
Thanks for the info , do you have any pics of your modification .
Sorry, no pictures. I think this is also the way those are produced - very basic. Take a set screw, drill a hole in it, slot the tip, insert spring and pin, use a press/hammer to deform the tip so that the pin is secured inside. Nevertheless if there is too much side-pressure on the pin when going from one detention to the next it will work the pin loose. Happened to quite a few people already and some more probably just haven't noticed
Michael
Jakobi
Super Moderator
I ended up going leaner as the day progressed, maybe another 5 clicks from where I was, but in hindsight I may go one richer again just to bump the torque back up. Where I am now feels very similar to where I was before on the old needle. I still have a bit of blubber and load up in the single track, but it definitely doesn't bog as badly when cracking the throttle. I managed to make it carry on when I was lugging up a snotty section in second gear low in the revs. Its pretty crisp on the pipe and will loft the front on song in 5th gear. I think its currently a touch lean as it feels punchier a bit richer, but then I get more of the loading up burbling. I may just have to change my riding style to suit. It also seems to run a bit inconsistant, like if I ride it really hard it feels good, but then if I lugg it it loads up and burbles more. The problem is that a typical ride for me consists of a bit of both. Techy 1st and 2nd gear single track through to open 4th and 5th gear windys, as well as everything in between.
Fuel consumption wise I hit reserve at 91kms, from a full tank.
Fuel consumption wise I hit reserve at 91kms, from a full tank.
Seems like where I've been at also. I tried to go lower on the float level and it really pronounced the lean spot after 1/4 throttle. So maybe going a bit higher on the float level, from 20 to 18/19 for example, could take care of the lean spot while still being able to use a lean clicker position for a clean off idle area. I also have a replacement rod coming, but unfortunately I will have a different bike by then so I can't directly compare.
Michael
Michael
Jakobi
Super Moderator
I was thinking of going the other way michael and trying a lower float level, and a richer needle position. It may also just be the way the carb is and I'll have to adjust the riding style to suit. Its not horrible or unridable like this.
With the inconsistancies I wonder if its float related. You said you saw improvements with polishing the seat. I may see if Corey will send out one of the other valves to try.
Flybars, atm I'd say the SC is about where I had the Lectron when I changed it out.
With the inconsistancies I wonder if its float related. You said you saw improvements with polishing the seat. I may see if Corey will send out one of the other valves to try.
Flybars, atm I'd say the SC is about where I had the Lectron when I changed it out.
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