throwing good money after bad
- Thread starter MonsterTruck
- Start date
Clay
Banned
In a perfect world, yes. Unfortunately, when a brand has only 65 dealers in a country as big as the US, the next nearest dealer may be a four hour drive away, eight hour round trip. One other issue is that a lot of dealers are new to GG and are not as familiar with the engine as GF is. Sounds like MT had a bad experience with the engine and dealer and I'm trying to make sure the issue is resolved.
Where can you find a brand where the importer offers his phone number, and say's he will help resolve the issue. I would think Gas Gas is the only one that comes to mind. When I lived in New York I had to drive 3 hour's to my local Ktm dealer. I S.C. my BMW dealer is 4 hours away and I'm pretty sure the importer for Bmw is not going to give me his phone number. Bottom line for me is race bikes break,but this one breaks the least, and when it does between GG and this web page you will get all the help you need. I had guys call me like they were my buddys before I bought the bike to give me info on the brand.
MonsterTruck
New member
Sorry, I'm not trying to get into a turf war. I am a super pleased GG customer. I fully understand that things brake. I really appreciate everyone's time and expertice.
I am going to be taking the right side cover off today, hopefully I will just find that my power valve is out of adjustment. I'll keep you posted.
I am going to be taking the right side cover off today, hopefully I will just find that my power valve is out of adjustment. I'll keep you posted.
Tip for shipping an engine: Use a cooler.. That's right, just get a cooler, like one you would take on a boat or to the beach.. It's light, has a lid, and you can stuff or build supports around the engine while it is in there. Tape it up well and FedEx will handle it with no problems. 
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Hope you get to the source of your issues. I also experienced an issue with mine when the piston began to wear that the engine would make a brrrrrr vibrating kind of noise that I felt uneasy about on decel. A fresh top end cleared it all up.
Its great to see Clay supporting the product as much as he does!
MonsterTruck
New member
Cooler. That is excellent. For now, I am hoping to keep it at home. Anyhow, I got into the right side last night. I got the PV adjusted properly I think...
Question on reassembly. The water pump seal: does it press in or snap into place? It looks like I just tighten the impeller down and it squishes the seal up against that white surface.
I am pretty sure it is in correctly, I need some reassurance from someone who has seen this before. I am otherwise at a stopping point. Will need to wait for parts.
Anyone have any advice on what other maintance projects to work on whlie the bike is apart? On my list is exhaust cleaning, top end, remove e starter.
Thanks again!
Question on reassembly. The water pump seal: does it press in or snap into place? It looks like I just tighten the impeller down and it squishes the seal up against that white surface.
I am pretty sure it is in correctly, I need some reassurance from someone who has seen this before. I am otherwise at a stopping point. Will need to wait for parts.
Anyone have any advice on what other maintance projects to work on whlie the bike is apart? On my list is exhaust cleaning, top end, remove e starter.
Thanks again!
Try looking at this. For the power valve. I was also able to down load a complete shop manual on here somewhere but can't find it.
http://www.gasgasrider.org/pv_disassembly_mattr.pdf
http://www.gasgasrider.org/pv_disassembly_mattr.pdf
Last edited:
Clay
Banned
Glad to do it. We appreciate the business and want to support our dealers and their customers.
I thought about this issue a little and want to try and make a point.....Sometimes it is really hard for a mechanic, no matter how experienced he is, to find and repair a noise in the engine. Sometimes the noise has to get worse before the mechanic can pinpoint the source. I think that is probably what the dealer was trying to tell MT in this situation.
Clay
N.v.h.
Noise
Vibration
Harshness
NVH concerns can be incredibly expensive and frustrating to remedy. OEM's and customers "throw good money after bad" making a customer complaint in NVH disappear. The first step is to make sure the technician hears and feels the same issue as the customer. Second, the technician needs to be aware what is "normal" or acceptable in a given product line and how that product is built. Third, the technician must have the authority to spend warranty(or the customers') dollars to repair the concern.
The frequency of the noise or vibration is a clue to what system or subsystem is the root cause. I.E. crank speed, trans speed, final drive etc.. In the end, determination and patience is what "fixes" vehicles.
jz
Noise
Vibration
Harshness
NVH concerns can be incredibly expensive and frustrating to remedy. OEM's and customers "throw good money after bad" making a customer complaint in NVH disappear. The first step is to make sure the technician hears and feels the same issue as the customer. Second, the technician needs to be aware what is "normal" or acceptable in a given product line and how that product is built. Third, the technician must have the authority to spend warranty(or the customers') dollars to repair the concern.
The frequency of the noise or vibration is a clue to what system or subsystem is the root cause. I.E. crank speed, trans speed, final drive etc.. In the end, determination and patience is what "fixes" vehicles.
jz
GMP
Active member
MT,
A misadjusted power valve will not cause increasing vibration and shifting issues as you describe. It will simply rattle a bit at idle. I fear you have other significant problems. While I'm all for digging in and taking care of business myself, in this case being its so new and you have not been into one, I'd take Clay up on his offer and have things made right.
A misadjusted power valve will not cause increasing vibration and shifting issues as you describe. It will simply rattle a bit at idle. I fear you have other significant problems. While I'm all for digging in and taking care of business myself, in this case being its so new and you have not been into one, I'd take Clay up on his offer and have things made right.
bchatt
Bronze Level Site Supporter
As usual, I think GMP has hit the nail exactly on the head. From reading the early part of the thread it sounds like you have a potentially serious problem, and your attention has been diverted by the powervalve adjustment issue. The original problem has not been found, and no disrespect to you, I don't think you are in a strong position to find it. I would also suggest taking up Clays offer, no matter how inconvenient - something sounds wrong, it's not normal - get expert help!
Jakobi
Super Moderator
This is true. Also if the powervalve blew out what damage occured to the piston and jug and how were these originally dealt with?
Metal in the oil and the trouble shifting I would say are definately related. I wonder if a bearing on that side has lunched out. I'm sure I this in another thread a while back.
moto9
Silver Level Site Supporter
MonsterTruck
New member
Thanks again for all the support. I am going to complete the basic repairs and put it back together. I don't think I am in over my head at this time, but I won't be splitting the crank case at home. If it does not seem 100% when I finish the top end, then I will be shipping the engine in a cooler and getting some pro help. I do agree that what I have found only partly explains the problem.
I just ordered parts today, hope to see them early next week. I hope to get it together by the following weekend. I will be intouch.
One a side note, my Honda 450 has been at a friend's house all summer as I thought he was going to buy it. It is at my house now. It is not the same as the GG, but it is better than a stick in the eye.
I don't see why anyone would buy anything else... You guys are the best.
I just ordered parts today, hope to see them early next week. I hope to get it together by the following weekend. I will be intouch.
One a side note, my Honda 450 has been at a friend's house all summer as I thought he was going to buy it. It is at my house now. It is not the same as the GG, but it is better than a stick in the eye.
I don't see why anyone would buy anything else... You guys are the best.
MonsterTruck
New member
best ride of the summer.
ok today was the day. By that I mean best ride of the summer. Went to a foavorite local trail. We did a great 6hr singletrack ride in the mountains. Good freinds, great weather and the bike...
I got the new piston in on Saturday. I also got the PV adjusted, got the Rekluse adjusted, and removed the estart. A few other bits and pieces for the hell of it . I let the bike idle at home for about 30 min, then shut her down. Seemed a lot quieter than before and a lot less smokey.
Real test was today. The bike fires right up. Pulls real strong all the way through. My friend who rides this bike once everyother ride or so says: that is better than when it was new. 25% more power and SMOOTH. i even dropped him on the biggest climb of the day. Not often that I can do that.
Anyhow, thanks for the tips and links. See you on the trail
ok today was the day. By that I mean best ride of the summer. Went to a foavorite local trail. We did a great 6hr singletrack ride in the mountains. Good freinds, great weather and the bike...
I got the new piston in on Saturday. I also got the PV adjusted, got the Rekluse adjusted, and removed the estart. A few other bits and pieces for the hell of it . I let the bike idle at home for about 30 min, then shut her down. Seemed a lot quieter than before and a lot less smokey.
Real test was today. The bike fires right up. Pulls real strong all the way through. My friend who rides this bike once everyother ride or so says: that is better than when it was new. 25% more power and SMOOTH. i even dropped him on the biggest climb of the day. Not often that I can do that.
Anyhow, thanks for the tips and links. See you on the trail
MonsterTruck
New member
So, while my GG was in pieces, I took my Honda 450x out for a trail ride. All I can say is that we GG riders are a spoiled lot. The vast majority of folks out there are riding bikes like my Honda and have no idea what they are missing. It is the tripple negative: you don't know what you don't know because you don't know.
Jim Cook
Platinum Level Site Supporter
I know that this is after the fact, but I wanted to add a point.
First.... I'm really glad that your repair worked for you. I would be interested to hear if it is still shifting hard, etc (the symptoms you spoke of which had no relation to the top end job you did).
Second. I suggest that you get a parts book and when you work on a component (such as the powervalve), make sure all parts are there and in the correct order. I've seen many new bikes come from the GasGas factory without the spacer on the right hand end of the shaft (behind the pv bracket where the linkage connects). My 2006 DE300 did.
I've seen many used bikes come through my shop for engine work which were also missing that spacer. Presumably lost during a previous repair.
This is usually apparent from the excessive rattling in the pv area as the engine is running.
I would often print out the specific page showing the parts for a job (from the pdf parts books and the repair manuals).
OMT: I have found the best clutch action (most quiet, with less drag and smoother shifting) by having a properly bled hydraulic clutch system, and by using Amsoil 0w40 4-stroke engine oil in my transmission. This is especially true when using a Rekluse auto clutch.
Good Riding!
Jim
The ISDT Reunion Ride is coming up in three of weeks. If anyone has a running dirt bike of '84 or older vintage, this is one of the most fun events a rider can enter. The ride is in northwest Arkansas at Mill Creek (Combs, AR).
http://www.ahrma.org/ahrma_pdfs/Z-20...bs_preview.htm
http://www.ahrma.org/ahrma_pdfs/Z-20...entry_2_17.pdf
.
First.... I'm really glad that your repair worked for you. I would be interested to hear if it is still shifting hard, etc (the symptoms you spoke of which had no relation to the top end job you did).
Second. I suggest that you get a parts book and when you work on a component (such as the powervalve), make sure all parts are there and in the correct order. I've seen many new bikes come from the GasGas factory without the spacer on the right hand end of the shaft (behind the pv bracket where the linkage connects). My 2006 DE300 did.
I've seen many used bikes come through my shop for engine work which were also missing that spacer. Presumably lost during a previous repair.
This is usually apparent from the excessive rattling in the pv area as the engine is running.
I would often print out the specific page showing the parts for a job (from the pdf parts books and the repair manuals).
OMT: I have found the best clutch action (most quiet, with less drag and smoother shifting) by having a properly bled hydraulic clutch system, and by using Amsoil 0w40 4-stroke engine oil in my transmission. This is especially true when using a Rekluse auto clutch.
Good Riding!
Jim
The ISDT Reunion Ride is coming up in three of weeks. If anyone has a running dirt bike of '84 or older vintage, this is one of the most fun events a rider can enter. The ride is in northwest Arkansas at Mill Creek (Combs, AR).
http://www.ahrma.org/ahrma_pdfs/Z-20...bs_preview.htm
http://www.ahrma.org/ahrma_pdfs/Z-20...entry_2_17.pdf
.
barkmuncher
New member
x2 for using 0-40, 0-30 synthetic; I have had excellent results in the 2 gassers I have owned. As for the sticky 1st to 2nd shifts, both the bikes I have owned have done it but have gotten better with time. Not sure what the cause is but make sure your shifter tip is not too sloppy. I tightened mine up and it made a difference.
