2010 EC 300 Water pump shaft snapped & bearing collapsed

[Vindicator]

To prevent some of the misfortunes related here I decided to check "Carmen's" watter pump.

Started by draining the antifreeze

Sorry about the funnel, it goes back to my orange fever days

Removed the watter pump cover and found this:

It's clear that it's been rubbing against cover

 

[Vindicator]

The cover also shows marks, exactly like Jakobi's

The groves are irregular and pretty deep, no doubt from the impeller. The depth of the grooves tells me that quite possibly not even 2 gaskets would be enough.

 

[Vindicator]

But what's really scary is that the shaft is not centered. I will have to investigate more to understand why, My guess go for either the bearings or the shaft and even though I don't notice any radial play I can slightly move the shaft back and forth a few mms. Would this be normal ?

 

[Vindicator]

The gear that moves the shaft still in one piece

bearing on the carter side seems fine

Small movie where we can see that movement is not centered, it's wobbling ; Problem seems to be the shaft but I have no tools to measure the twist . I don't think all this wobbling is a good thing, will replace the shaft also .

 

[Jakobi]

Thats definitely buckled somewhere. You should be able to remove the gearset from the shaft. From there lay it on a flat surface (piece of glass) and use a feeler gauge under it. It may be that its the gear thats not straight too. Either way, I bet you're happy you took the time to check it out before it failed.

 

[adv rider]

impeller

Seeing these water pump issues worry me. I wonder about checking, while my bike is still under warranty. Has anyone had these parts replaced under warranty-before failure?
I wonder if i could get the checkpoint,or motocross center impeller.

Would seem foolish to replace with the same oem parts.

 

[Vindicator]

Thats definitely buckled somewhere. You should be able to remove the gearset from the shaft. From there lay it on a flat surface (piece of glass) and use a feeler gauge under it. It may be that its the gear thats not straight too. Either way, I bet you're happy you took the time to check it out before it failed.

Will try like that, thanks . To be honest I'm relieved to have done it on what seems to be the perfect timing... Did I ever mention the awful screeching noise my engine did the 2nd/3rd time I started it when brand new ? Think I know why...

 

[Vindicator]

Pics attached hopefully?

You can see where its been rubbing about 50% of the inner cover...

This bearing is the one on the case cover ? What about the one attached to the carter, is it still good ?

 

[Vindicator]

Seeing these water pump issues worry me. I wonder about checking, while my bike is still under warranty. Has anyone had these parts replaced under warranty-before failure?
I wonder if i could get the checkpoint,or motocross center impeller.

Would seem foolish to replace with the same oem parts.

I think this is not covered by warranty because this is not officially recognized...If it where, they would need to recall thousands of bikes... But maybe your dealer can work some magic with the importer/factory, one never knows...

 

[thumperflipper]

aftermarket impeller clearance

agree with Glenn dont just toss in the alloy impeller and button it up... my factory plastic impeller left scars inside my pump housing as in the pix above...the alloy impeller was even taller than stock....so what i did was installed the impeller, quick shot of black spraypaint to the inside of waterpump cover, install WP cover, and turn shaft by hand, (grinding sound) , remove impeller and file down blades where it was contacting inside of cover, repeat process until grinding sound gone and spray paint on inside of WP cover stays intact. Spraypaint comes right off with brake cleaner. Didnt want 2 WP gaskets my WP housing sticks out too far already. 20 hrs so far no probs.
great thread thx guys

 

[nambo-trev]

My importer Dave covered an entirely new motor for me because the factory would not do to this problem. Really unfortunate they don't see this as a bigger problem

 

[Vindicator]

My importer Dave covered an entirely new motor for me because the factory would not do to this problem. Really unfortunate they don't see this as a bigger problem

My former KTM, as so many others, had problems with the tank fuel cap. KTM Talk did quite a "noise" around this problem and in the end KTM issued a recall program for the faulty caps, mine included. This was just a cap, no where near the seriousness and gravity of a collapsing watter pump . Maybe we should expose this to GasGas, eventually to the Q&A Department (if they have one) .

 

[GMP]

I suspect that this is from poor tolerance control on the impeller, and/or ,poor surfacing on the cover, and too little design clearance to account for them both. The side cover seems much better, and how can you screw up the shaft length? Both parts are junk, lets face it. Just think about how many bikes are like this if everyone here that checked has a problem. What is really bad is that GG had at one time switched to an OEM alloy impeller, then switched back to plastic. It is the same part, not a different plastic, I have an old and new one. In places I have worked, heads would roll for a decision like that.

There needs to be a change in how quality is viewed at the factory. Quality is not a collection of bling parts and a white frame. Quality starts at the design level and continues through all phases of production. Quality means the importer, dealer, and certainly the user, should not have to debug the bike.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Jakobi]

There needs to be a change in how quality is viewed at the factory. Quality is not a collection of bling parts and a white frame. Quality starts at the design level and continues through all phases of production. Quality means the importer, dealer, and certainly the user, should not have to debug the bike.

Agreed. Powervalve slop, Waterpump clearance, Jetting specs, Supporting documentation (inconsistancies/errors/lack of info). All areas that have been identified as falling short of the mark for a long long time, yet very little has been done to resolve them.

 

[flybars]

Hopefully the new owners will turn this QC around. But I gotta say if I had the money right now, I'd be riding a Beta 300rr. I like everthing about this bike. And at 5'6" it is probly the lowest two stroke out there. They put some serious thought into this bike.

 

[mcnut]

There needs to be a change in how quality is viewed at the factory. Quality is not a collection of bling parts and a white frame. Quality starts at the design level and continues through all phases of production. Quality means the importer, dealer, and certainly the user, should not have to debug...

Here, here! There are far too many goofy mistakes in design and production.

 

[GMP]

One can only hope that things will change in this respect. They really have the art/scence of building an excellent performing bike down.

For you guys that need a quick fix, either the Checkpoint impeller or the kit from Motocrosscenter. Kit is easy. If just using the Checkpoint impeller, you can stack gaskets to acheive adequate clearance if machining the rear of the impeller is a problem. Also you could get an older cover from a part out. They had a fully machined inner surface, never had any interferance problems with the old bikes. The Checkpoint part has been around awhile, its actually a copy of the LTR impeller, which Les designed around the older bikes. Just do something because those pics are not looking good.

 

[gasgasman]

Some of the earlier covers are different and won't bolt up.
Someone can contact Boyesen to make a cover.

I think the real issue is the hole drilled in the coolant pump drive shaft for the locking pin for the drive gear.
It is a weak spot.

 

[GMP]

Girard,

How old? Never tried to fit my '07 cover, but it looks like the same pattern, and the side cover looks the same. I'll have to measure it.

True on the shaft design, but I don't remember failures on older bikes. PV governer shaft is same design/dia. where pin is used, same bearings used, and I don't ever remember hearing about a PV failure. Questionable yes, but certainly aggrevated by impeller interference.

If Checkpoint is going to continue to make these, they should change the design for more clearance and all should be good for a bolt on fix. While the cover looks crappy on the inside, its fine as far as flow, and as we know the bikes never overheat. Four stroke cooling was the driving force behind the Boyesen covers.

 

[john r b]

One can only hope that things will change in this respect. They really have the art/scence of building an excellent performing bike down.

For you guys that need a quick fix, either the Checkpoint impeller or the kit from Motocrosscenter. Kit is easy. If just using the Checkpoint impeller, you can stack gaskets to acheive adequate clearance if machining the rear of the impeller is a problem. Also you could get an older cover from a part out. They had a fully machined inner surface, never had any interferance problems with the old bikes. The Checkpoint part has been around awhile, its actually a copy of the LTR impeller, which Les designed around the older bikes. Just do something because those pics are not looking good.

As reported earlier I had both checkpoint impellers machined down(back side)
the 200xc went smoothly. the 250xc was still rubbing the cover. So I fabed.
a spacer from an old skid plate. all is well. However I feel I should not have to perform these modifications.Not to mention extra costs..It's just getting old.