2010 EC300 Factory Jetting Specs - WTF?

[JP4]

Perfection Achieved

Update from the OP.

After 40-50 carb pulls for rejet, the bike runs perfect! I raced it this weekend for the first time, and WOW! A GASSER does make a spode look like they know what they're doing.

This is the best MC I've ever owned. Full Stop.

Bike fit, handling, power delivery, cool components, it's like they made this thing for me! I couldn't be happier.

Carb Set-up:

2010 GG EC300 w/ AS1.

~750 ASL
15C
N0ZH Needle - 3rd Clip (a freebie from my local KTM dealer)
40 PJ
2.0 out Fuel Screw
178 Main (fat, but safe till I have more time to test)
2.0 turns from full in on the Idle Scew - way in, but still tunable
50T Rear Sprocket

The bike runs like an electric motor - just twist and it goes - instant throttle response - chug and snap, all in the same gear gear - WOW! Even and steady idle when cold and hot. Clean off the bottom, no loading, barks hard in the 'Sunshine' setting. No smoke, no spooge - Motul 710 Syn, 50/1.

Tweaked the suspension - dialed in more rebound and compression, race sag 108mm - got it working not bad for full stock components. Compared to the converted MXer
(04 YZ250F) I was riding, it's a dream.

Here's the race recap:

http://www.offroadmotorcycles.ca/journal/2011/5/8/sunny-and-muddy-scramble-in-port-colborne.html

Me doing the logs:

Very happy!

JP

 

[Jakobi]

How about it

NOZH is only a half a clip leaner than N1EH, which is 2 steps leaner on the straight than the N1EF it shipped with. After those 50 carb pulls no doubt you learnt a few things, and very nearly ended up back where you were.

What else did you try that felt close to right?

Glad to hear you've got it singing the way it wants to!

 

[JP4]

How about it

NOZH is only a half a clip leaner than N1EH, which is 2 steps leaner on the straight than the N1EF it shipped with. After those 50 carb pulls no doubt you learnt a few things, and very nearly ended up back where you were.

What else did you try that felt close to right?

Glad to hear you've got it singing the way it wants to!

You're right, it seems like I took the long way to get back close to where I started. Part of the problem was how I had to test. We had a cold wet spring, so off-road riding opportunities were limited. A lot of it was done on cold days, on city streets. The bike is road plated, so I was legal, but it was less than ideal.

I could get the bike to work pretty well in a variety of configurations, but I was always trying to get the idle screw more turned out. For whatever reason this bike requires the screw turned in quite a bit, but remains tuneable none the less. Once I accepted this, I just tuned to how I like the bike to make power.

I like the N0ZH (3rd clip) needle with the 40PJ, and 2 turns out on the airscrew best.

However, the JD Blue needle (3rd clip) with a 42PJ and airscrew at 2.5 out made for a buttery smooth bottom and transition to mid-range. Maybe too smooth, but I'm gonna play with this set-up again to see.

Still waiting on a back-ordered N3EH needle to try out.

Other things I learned - there's only 1 perfect angle to get the carb in and out (never removed the sub-frame to pull the carb). To remove, you have to pull the carb and airboot back, then rotate the carb outlet (engine side) downwards toward the engine, then raise the the carb up with the top at a slight angle upwards, pull back the airboot and squeeze the carb out the opening. Same techniques applies in reverse to reinstall. Done right the carb goes in out in a matter of minutes. Go at it blindly and you can twist and turn for 20 minutes without success.

Also - don't overtighten the airboot hose clamp cause once it skips it's junk, and the skinny little things (10 mm band width) are a PIA to find. I searched my local industrial parts supply and auto parts stores without success. I eventually found some on Ebay from a bike shop in the UK.

Only testing and pulling the carb without being able to ride due to the weather wasn't much fun. Now that things have dried up a bit and I get to ride the bike it makes it all worthwhile. The more I ride the bike the more I learn about it, and the more I like it.

Jason

 

[GMP]

You don't have to pull the carb. Loosen clamps, rotate toward you, remove cap/slide, rotate away until bowl accessable.

 

[JP4]

You don't have to pull the carb. Loosen clamps, rotate toward you, remove cap/slide, rotate away until bowl accessable.

That was my early technique to access the PJ in the AS1 ...

But, I found it difficult to re-install the bowl screws with the carb in the bike. On one ocassion, because of all the manipulation of the carb required to access the screws with the tangs for routing the hoses, the pin holding the floats fell out. So did the float needle ... only I didn't see the needle fall out ... Two days later I stepped on something and realized it was the float needle. The spring loaded tip was no longer springey ... $43 for a float needle ...

Now, I find it simplier to just pull the carb.

 

[Bailey28]

I do have to say, damn it why can't I pull the pilot jet out with only the bowl drain undone like I can on my FCR.

Also, I wish Keihin had installed a neat bowl drain screw like on the FCR models. I think someone makes aftermarket bowls, but I guess I can't have my cake and eat it too.

 

[stainlesscycle]

I think someone makes aftermarket bowls, but I guess I can't have my cake and eat it too.

yep, there are aftermarket bowls, but they're usually deeper, which would make the 'twist and undo' method almost impossible (it's tight already with the bowl hitting the sprocket/guard...)

access to the pilot without removing the bowl would be nice for sure.

 

[JP4]

I do have to say, damn it why can't I pull the pilot jet out with only the bowl drain undone like I can on my FCR.

Also, I wish Keihin had installed a neat bowl drain screw like on the FCR models. I think someone makes aftermarket bowls, but I guess I can't have my cake and eat it too.

You hit the nail on the head.

From what I know, the ASII has a lower profile, and a bowl drain screw that allows you to change the Pilot Jet and the Main too. Nice.

While I think of it ...

Removing the countershaft sprocket guard to free up room for carb play ... bad idea ... 2 of the 3 bolts that hold the countershaft guard also hold the clutch slave. Ride it like this while testing, and the clutch sucks air ... All of a sudden you're trying to understandand why the grabby clutch?

Then you have to find a big plastic syringe, some hose, the right fluid, and have to learn how to back bleed an hydraulic clutch! Thanks to searches on this site, I figured it out and used some 5W fork oil to get the job done.

Just another reason why I pull the carb for Pilot Jet changes!

 

[GMP]

I've always spun the carb for jetting on all my GGs. I trim the top of the case guards slightly to eliminate interference, and slip a small tray under the carb to catch parts and fuel. I don't know about the '10s and '11s, but its way easier than fighting with the very stiff rubber airboot on all previous GGs.

 

[Jakobi]

PWK38 ASII

Spin towards you and remove the cap and slide.
Turn back away and you can get the bung out the bottom to access main and pilot.

Hardest part is making sure the air boots are sealing well when you're done.

 

[mrkartoom]

You don't have to pull the carb. Loosen clamps, rotate toward you, remove cap/slide, rotate away until bowl accessable.

+1 That's how I've been doing it. I also remove the chain/case guard as the bottom of my bowl smacks it and keeps it from rotating to full accessibility. Maybe a bit more physical persuasion would negate having to do that.

 

[swazi_matt]

air screw limits

Ok an update and a question

adjusted my float height to close at a lower float bowl level (def below spec as it was just off being parallel at closing point). Unfortunately the battery in my computer has stopped working so i am unable to say if my mileage has improved, but i did not have any fuel starvation at wfo

i changed my main jet to a 172 which seems to be fine, and seems a lot more spunky at flat out

only thing is after a long technical section on the pilot 90% of the time i got onto a road and opened it up and it felt like the plug had fouled. So i replaced the plug and did a few flat out runs to check that the main jet was ok and it seemed fine.

I then decided to play around with the airscrew and found that it seemed best at 3 turns out. To me this indicates that i should probably drop from the 40 to a 38 pilot or is 3 turns still acceptable with the AS2 carb? just feels a bit loose like it is all the way open

thanks

 

[Jakobi]

Ok an update and a question

adjusted my float height to close at a lower float bowl level (def below spec as it was just off being parallel at closing point). Unfortunately the battery in my computer has stopped working so i am unable to say if my mileage has improved, but i did not have any fuel starvation at wfo

i changed my main jet to a 172 which seems to be fine, and seems a lot more spunky at flat out

only thing is after a long technical section on the pilot 90% of the time i got onto a road and opened it up and it felt like the plug had fouled. So i replaced the plug and did a few flat out runs to check that the main jet was ok and it seemed fine.

I then decided to play around with the airscrew and found that it seemed best at 3 turns out. To me this indicates that i should probably drop from the 40 to a 38 pilot or is 3 turns still acceptable with the AS2 carb? just feels a bit loose like it is all the way open

thanks

I'm using a 38 at 1.5 turns out.. Try the 38 and see where you end up..

Funny you mention the battery. Mine did the same thing and I just threw a fresh one in there today. Kept resetting itself at random intervals. Most annoying.

 

[Jakobi]

Just checking in with a little comparison between the last 2 needles I have used.
N3EG#1
N3CH#2
Both needles run using a 38 pilot and 175 Main.

It amazes me what difference even half a clips difference can make to the power delivery!

Listening and watching video of the N3EG setup there is a definite burble at very light application of the throttle, which is converted to instant snap and a very crisp sounding revvy engine.

On the other hand the N3CH is much smoother and feels torquier right off idle. The transfer onto the pipe feels as it has been moved up in the rev range somewhat and is much less violent in its nature. The engine still pulls cleanly without spooge. It just feels much less abrupt.

Having a hard time deciding which I prefer I think the later of the setup is much more practical. The bike feels happier lugging off idle (perhaps to having a few more revs to lug in) and much less tiring to ride. It still plain rips when opening the throttle a bit further and has no issues popping the front up at any time.

Anyone else had similar results?

 

[husley]

close

Just checking in with a little comparison between the last 2 needles I have used.
N3EG#1
N3CH#2
Both needles run using a 38 pilot and 175 Main.

It amazes me what difference even half a clips difference can make to the power delivery!

Listening and watching video of the N3EG setup there is a definite burble at very light application of the throttle, which is converted to instant snap and a very crisp sounding revvy engine.

On the other hand the N3CH is much smoother and feels torquier right off idle. The transfer onto the pipe feels as it has been moved up in the rev range somewhat and is much less violent in its nature. The engine still pulls cleanly without spooge. It just feels much less abrupt.

Having a hard time deciding which I prefer I think the later of the setup is much more practical. The bike feels happier lugging off idle (perhaps to having a few more revs to lug in) and much less tiring to ride. It still plain rips when opening the throttle a bit further and has no issues popping the front up at any time.

Anyone else had similar results?

40 pilot
N3CH #2
180 main

Very happy with the N3CH.. Switching to a 38 and 178 this week.

 

[Jakobi]

40 pilot
N3CH #2
180 main

Very happy with the N3CH.. Switching to a 38 and 178 this week.

Still not sure if I am I mean.. I know I am.. It rides well but I'm just not sure if its as crisp in the mid as the N3EG is at position #1. Its only a half a clip difference!

Been doing my head in all afternoon considering swapping em out but didn't bother. I think with the H taper I could probably move back up to a 40 pilot aswell. The revs will slowly climb up if left at idle. It occassionally hangs just for a moment also. No leaks in the carb boot that I'm aware of and wouldn't be expected at such low hours. The bike will also continue to run with the air screw wound all but right in (only just).

I might try the N3EJ with a 40/42 pilot on clip #1 or 2 next and see where that gets me. Also considering doing up some vids of each config so everyone can comment on the response of the bike.

 

[mrkartoom]

Still not sure if I am I mean.. I know I am.. It rides well but I'm just not sure if its as crisp in the mid as the N3EG is at position #1. Its only a half a clip difference!

Been doing my head in all afternoon considering swapping em out but didn't bother. I think with the H taper I could probably move back up to a 40 pilot aswell. The revs will slowly climb up if left at idle. It occassionally hangs just for a moment also. No leaks in the carb boot that I'm aware of and wouldn't be expected at such low hours. The bike will also continue to run with the air screw wound all but right in (only just).

I might try the N3EJ with a 40/42 pilot on clip #1 or 2 next and see where that gets me. Also considering doing up some vids of each config so everyone can comment on the response of the bike.

I've tried one setting with my N3EJ:

42p
N3EJ #3
180m
a/s 1.5

This was very close to LTR's kit, but they called for a 40p. I didn't have one at the time so I tried the 42. This was way too rich down low blowing lots of smoke, but oddly enough the low end was actually way way stronger than anything else I have tried so far. It was lean in the middle, so I plan to go to #4 on the needle, and try a 40p. I have one now. It's been monsoon'ing for a solid week here and no way to get out and test anything, plus my clutch hydraulics are torn apart waiting on parts. Maybe this weekend. I'm optimistic about this combo.

I also tried the following:

38p
N3CH #3
178m
a/s 1.0-2.5

This blew smoke and made no power down low whatsoever and was better mid-top than the stock N1EF. Problem was the a/s seemed to do nothing and the idle would wander. I wanted to try this combo at #2 before messing with the pilot, but went right to the N3EJ. I may still compare it to what I end up on with the N3EJ. Sounds like where husley's going so anxious to hear on that.

 

[Jakobi]

Sounds a bit like where I am with your wandering idle.. I think my needle is still a bit rich, and the pilot is a bit lean so I get a bit of a lean raised idle, followed by a choof of smoke when I give it a rev.. It seems a bit slow to rev through the mid range, even though it pulls well. Tears up big time in the top end

What do you describe a lean midrange to feel like?

PS You've almost convinced me to drop the 40 pilot and the N3EJ in before the weekend! but I'll wait and get some video of the N3CH to comparo.

 

[mrkartoom]

SWhat do you describe a lean midrange to feel like?

It didn't want to rev quickly. Not the smoke or crackling you get with rich. Plus I pulled the choke lever in a wee bit and that seemed to clean it up. One positive to having the choke on the lever!

I'm just doing ride and feel at the moment. When it feels good I'll start doing plug checks.

 

[Jakobi]

It didn't want to rev quickly. Not the smoke or crackling you get with rich. Plus I pulled the choke lever in a wee bit and that seemed to clean it up. One positive to having the choke on the lever!

I'm just doing ride and feel at the moment. When it feels good I'll start doing plug checks.

Interesting as I was always under the belief that a lean conditon would rev really cleanly but generate no power. A really lean condition will hesitate and surge. Boowaah!

Rich would be slow to rev but continue to pull. Really rich will start to burble and won't really pull past the point where its drowing.

I do like you're diagnotics with the choke cable I'll be sure to give it a go but judging from my previous setup I found the further I leaned off the needle the crisper it got.