2018 Starter Fix Thread - Continued.

[ssaulnier]

The advantage of removing the entire ignition cover is that you can then remove the bendix, poke it into the bore on the Bendix cover and fiddle it about with your fingers in an attempt to identify too little clearance. That is the idea anyway. But I wasn?t actually able to determine anything except that I thought it felt ok but was actually too bound up.

But perhaps my technique is flawed....

But you also get a chance to have a good look at all the bits inside the case.

 

[GG221]

Thanks for the vid. What?s the benefit of removing the ignition cover besides the finger test? Now that it?s a known issue does it make sense to forgo removing the ignition cover and go straight to the bendix cover? Polish it, reinstall and ride?

It?d save me the cost of a new ignition cover gasket.....course I?d just by 6 pack of beer with that money. lol. But still.




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Yeah there?s no other point in removing the ignition cover other than doing the test, the only benefit would be to see if that was your actual issue or not. If the gear turns easily you have an issue somewhere else. But I suppose you would know that if you polished the bendix cover and it still didn?t work. So just remove the bendix cover and polish away!

 

[GG221]

Nice Video, thanks for adding to this thread!

When I performed that finger spinning test of the Bendix gear I did not notice any significant drag. But apparently my fingers are not calibrated very well, because after polishing the Bendix bore in the Bendix cover and freshening up the grease my starter now functions properly.

It wasn?t a huge difference but definitely noticeable. Before polishing I could turn it with enough pressure. After polishing it took barely any pressure at all. Just my experience

 

[ssaulnier]

Let?s try a test. Before you take anything apart charge up your battery 100% and then grab your wife?s hair dryer or a manly heat gun and warm up the Bendix cover until it is warm to the touch like it has been sitting in the summer sun. This should expand the Bendix bore in the outer case and if that is your problem the bike should start ok with this warmed up cover.

If the bike starts we can assume that there is a excess friction so removing the Bendix cover only and polishing the bore with a felt dremel pad and then applying some fresh grease should sort your starter.

I would do myself but didn?t think of it soon enough and now my starter actually works. Crap

 

[distortion10]

Yeah there?s no other point in removing the ignition cover other than doing the test, the only benefit would be to see if that was your actual issue or not. If the gear turns easily you have an issue somewhere else. But I suppose you would know that if you polished the bendix cover and it still didn?t work. So just remove the bendix cover and polish away!

Cool. I have the bendix cover gasket so I’ll polish it up and let y’all know if it gets the bike start better in when gear. Since completing the full starting system wire upgrade it’ll start every time in neutral hot or cold but in gear is hit or miss. Hopefully this is the final silver bullet for the starter gremlins.


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[Skyrooster]

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this problem so I'll post it for the good of the cause. I was helping a friend with his 2018 300 after his starter began making horrible noises. He thought it might be do to the recent addition of a squish mod for race fuel but it turned out to be a wear issue. After 80 hours on the bike the small bendix cover that serves as a support bushing for the smallest gear had worn and the hole was elongated. This was easy to spot and would cause the small gear to try to walk over the top of the fine gear teeth on the bendix. I'd suggest removing the cover every other oil change and putting a dab of grease in the hole.

 

[ssaulnier]

Good suggestion about regularly greasing the Bendix cover bore. Did your buddy machine his worn cover to accept a bushing or just buy a new cover?

 

[GG221]

Yes that is a good idea but that?s a lot of gaskets.

 

[Skyrooster]

Good suggestion about regularly greasing the Bendix cover bore. Did your buddy machine his worn cover to accept a bushing or just buy a new cover?

The covers are out of stock so he is looking at either machining it for a bushing or bearing. I guess if he can't get that done he will kick start it until he can get a new one.

GASGAS took the old KTM design that never worked and copied it. lol. By design changing the direction of the drive 90 degrees it's always going to have power robbing problems.

 

[Skyrooster]

Yes that is a good idea but that?s a lot of gaskets.

Grease one side of the gasket and use high tack on the other side and it will come off without tearing and you can use it over and over.

 

[Doc Brown]

Grease one side of the gasket and use high tack on the other side and it will come off without tearing and you can use it over and over.

Brilliant idea, I'll try that. Thank you!

 

[Gasser Nate]

Or just wet mod it and not have to worry about grease.

 

[GG221]

Or just wet mod it and not have to worry about grease.

What exactly is the wet mod?

 

[Gasser Nate]

What exactly is the wet mod?

Seal up the drain on the bottom add a vent to the top and pour about 50-75 ml?s of oil (synthetic gearbox oil works well). Everything stays well lubricated and the bendix flies out and engages nice and quick.

 

[GG221]

What did you use to seal the bottom and where/how did you do the vent line.
Any pictures?

 

[Gasser Nate]

Two part epoxy to seal the drain, I just added a small vacuum fitting at the highest part of the case. Pretty sure I posted a pic to this thread way up there somewhere. Or another similar thread.

 

[Jacob 'Berg]

My bike (2018 xc250) did not like to e-start when cold, or for the first 20 minutes of each ride. It would e-start just fine after it warmed up.

I polished up the inside of the bendix cover and added some grease and it starts cold, in-gear, warm with no issues now. Great solution that took about 5 minutes of my time to address.

Thanks to everyone that contributed to this thread.

 

[Skyrooster]

Ok so a quick update on my friends starter on his 2018 300 2 stroke.

He bought this bike in late October and the starter is fried, the brushes are melted, the flywheel looks like the bendix is not engaging correctly and he has previously replaced the battery and the bendix cover. His dealer remapped it when new and it has the added heavy negative cable. I'm servicing his bike for a 9 hour race and I have little to no confidence that a new starter will be a lasting solution.

This set up reminds me of the KTM noise makers that almost never worked. Well they worked in ideal situations just not when the bike was cold or hot or after the warranty had expired.

Does anyone know if GASGAS stands behind this starter and is there parts available that can provide a lasting fix? If so who should I tell him to get in contact with?

 

[ssaulnier]

The starter motor brushes are most likely fried due to too much friction in the Bendix end cap bore. The too tight tolerances on the end cap to Bendix shaft creates too much friction which bogs down the starter so too much current flows through the starter. This is called the locked rotor current and is orders of magnitude greater than normal motor running current so is unsustainable and causes damage to current carrying components like the brushes.

I suggest polishing the bore on the new end cap as described previously and/or discovering the cause of the friction that is binding up the Bendix and starter.

The other fixes that were done are all good and correct and necessary but if there is too much friction in the Bendix cover and/or assembly then you will still have problems.

I think the basic components and design are sound but require proper tolerances, lubrication and assembly.

Mine required polishing the Bendix end cap bore and now starts from cold. It would only start before when hot after the Bendix end cap had warmed up and the bore expanded, reducing friction enough to decrease the load on the starter, leaving enough battery capacity to activate the ignition and spark the coil.

 

[shawbagga]

The starter motor brushes are most likely fried due to too much friction in the Bendix end cap bore. The too tight tolerances on the end cap to Bendix shaft creates too much friction which bogs down the starter so too much current flows through the starter. This is called the locked rotor current and is orders of magnitude greater than normal motor running current so is unsustainable and causes damage to current carrying components like the brushes.

I suggest polishing the bore on the new end cap as described previously and/or discovering the cause of the friction that is binding up the Bendix and starter.

The other fixes that were done are all good and correct and necessary but if there is too much friction in the Bendix cover and/or assembly then you will still have problems.

I think the basic components and design are sound but require proper tolerances, lubrication and assembly.

Mine required polishing the Bendix end cap bore and now starts from cold. It would only start before when hot after the Bendix end cap had warmed up and the bore expanded, reducing friction enough to decrease the load on the starter, leaving enough battery capacity to activate the ignition and spark the coil.

I'm doing a top end very soon & would like to inspect/clean/grease/improve the starter on my '18 XC250. Did you have pics on what to do as I've never touched one of these things before.