2018 Starter Fix Thread - Continued.

I'm doing a top end very soon & would like to inspect/clean/grease/umprove the starter on my '18 XC250. Did you have pics on what to do as I've never touched one of these things before.

Post 77 and 78 of this thread. Someones even posted a video.
 
My bike has all the updates other than a flywheel including a new starter. It still would not start on the button last fall until the motor was hot. Mind you it was 0 degrees C out side or colder. After a 4 month break I removed the right side number plate and noticed some white caulking on the fuse block connections. I dis-assembled and cleaned everything up and reassembled those connections with dielectric grease. Rolled it out in the drive way and it fired up with the button after all that sitting with no charging. Rode on Sunday and it was starting in gear and while out riding no problems at all. Had to kick it when I rolled it off the truck but the battery was cold from the hour drive at 2 degrees C. Time will tell I guess.
 
The starter motor brushes are most likely fried due to too much friction in the Bendix end cap bore. The too tight tolerances on the end cap to Bendix shaft creates too much friction which bogs down the starter so too much current flows through the starter. This is called the locked rotor current and is orders of magnitude greater than normal motor running current so is unsustainable and causes damage to current carrying components like the brushes.

I suggest polishing the bore on the new end cap as described previously and/or discovering the cause of the friction that is binding up the Bendix and starter.

The other fixes that were done are all good and correct and necessary but if there is too much friction in the Bendix cover and/or assembly then you will still have problems.

I think the basic components and design are sound but require proper tolerances, lubrication and assembly.

Mine required polishing the Bendix end cap bore and now starts from cold. It would only start before when hot after the Bendix end cap had warmed up and the bore expanded, reducing friction enough to decrease the load on the starter, leaving enough battery capacity to activate the ignition and spark the coil.
I've taken a little time to look further into this starter problem and it appears to me that the starter gear is engaging too deep into the flywheel gear. The noise and the wear on the flywheel remind me of the older Chevrolet starters when they were not shimmed properly. Of course this design cannot be adjusted with shims so he is waiting to hear back from his dealer who is being very helpful and says that most of his customers have had no problems but one other guy besides my friend is having similar problems.

I did check to drive and gear and it spun freely with no binding or play.
 
I've taken a little time to look further into this starter problem and it appears to me that the starter gear is engaging too deep into the flywheel gear. The noise and the wear on the flywheel remind me of the older Chevrolet starters when they were not shimmed properly. Of course this design cannot be adjusted with shims so he is waiting to hear back from his dealer who is being very helpful and says that most of his customers have had no problems but one other guy besides my friend is having similar problems.

I did check to drive and gear and it spun freely with no binding or play.

Any updates on this ?
 
Also can anybody confirm if the Bendix cover is easy to remove?
Mine basically needs to be pry'd away
.
Same with reinstallation, it won't go on by hand and I need to use the bolts of the cover to "press" it all back in
 
Mine goes back with fingers, not much force needed.

My bike just doesn't start with e-start, it has decent crancking speed, but no spark. I saw 2 other 2018 bikes, these did start even with cold engines, i tried their starter's, nothing, mine doesn't work. Can anyone post part numbers for latest flywheel and cdi for 2018? Those other bikes, that started, had different codes on the underside of cdi so i belive they have other flywheels also. Can one use 2019 model cdi and flywheel, many say, that 2019 do not have e-start problems like 2018, some versions of enduros come without kickstart and the starter is same.....

On my opinion spark just comes on too high rpm for decent starting, these bikes that started with e-start had also weak or little bit intermittent spark on cranking. Something is messing up spark generation, dunno why.
 
Mine goes back with fingers, not much force needed.

My bike just doesn't start with e-start, it has decent crancking speed, but no spark. I saw 2 other 2018 bikes, these did start even with cold engines, i tried their starter's, nothing, mine doesn't work. Can anyone post part numbers for latest flywheel and cdi for 2018? Those other bikes, that started, had different codes on the underside of cdi so i belive they have other flywheels also. Can one use 2019 model cdi and flywheel, many say, that 2019 do not have e-start problems like 2018, some versions of enduros come without kickstart and the starter is same.....

On my opinion spark just comes on too high rpm for decent starting, these bikes that started with e-start had also weak or little bit intermittent spark on cranking. Something is messing up spark generation, dunno why.

Your issue sounds like a spark related issue which can be fixed by asking your dealer about the ground cable upgrade and the cdi reflash
 
Update on my bendix cover - This morning it was fine to take on and off....It was very cold the night I had it off so maybe everything was just a bit tight...
 
Ground has already done, for cdi reflash, i need to know, which software works and do i need new flywheel also.
 
Hello,

need some advice with my starter, i have changed the bendix cover since mine was bad, and changed the bearings, the mechanism turns by hand realy well with no resistance, starter still does not work i'm getting really tired of this problem.

This video is working without the spark plug, so the starter is turning the engine:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hsrizg82hff0z2j/VID_20191017_194249.mp4?dl=0

In this video i have put the spark plug and it will not turn the engine any more.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qf9r4i7cnir5wkf/VID_20191017_194816.mp4?dl=0

Can it be the starter motor?
 
A really good easy test to see if a starter motor has the grunt to work in place is take the starter out and hook it up to a set of jumper leads. Then push the starter gear into a piece of hard wood. It should be able to grind its way through easily. Yours does sound funny in your video. Are you holding the button down in the second video or stabbing at the button?
 
It can be the starter motor.

My story short:

- The started motor died on me after 5 hours. Just barely made the engine turn with compressions, but could turn the engine without plug just like your's does.
- Changed all the cables (warranty), no help
- Renewed two batteries (one in warranty from GG with greater CCA), no help
- In the mean while broke four or five kick starters due to flywheel cutting the woodruff key and rotating on the axle (thank's once more for all the help I got here)
- After all this I got a new motor and bang, everything worked, until...
- My Bendix broke down :) (the gear broke free from the axle)
- Got new Bendix (warranty) and now it works great, so far :D

So if you have full battery and upgraded wires, and it still does not turn, ask a new motor to test.
 
It can be the starter motor.

My story short:

- The started motor died on me after 5 hours. Just barely made the engine turn with compressions, but could turn the engine without plug just like your's does.
- Changed all the cables (warranty), no help
- Renewed two batteries (one in warranty from GG with greater CCA), no help
- In the mean while broke four or five kick starters due to flywheel cutting the woodruff key and rotating on the axle (thank's once more for all the help I got here)
- After all this I got a new motor and bang, everything worked, until...
- My Bendix broke down :) (the gear broke free from the axle)
- Got new Bendix (warranty) and now it works great, so far :D

So if you have full battery and upgraded wires, and it still does not turn, ask a new motor to test.

Yes i have a good batery i was using the batery from my 2016 africa twin.

On the second video i was pressing the button for 2 seconds and pressing again.

I'm waiting for a new motor, o bought one for a ktm that is equal to this, i hope that the new motor will solve this issue once and for all!!
 
Yes i have a good batery i was using the batery from my 2016 africa twin.

On the second video i was pressing the button for 2 seconds and pressing again.

I'm waiting for a new motor, o bought one for a ktm that is equal to this, i hope that the new motor will solve this issue once and for all!!

Pls let me know if the Kato starter fits once you've got yours. Thank you!
 
Yes i have a good batery i was using the batery from my 2016 africa twin.

On the second video i was pressing the button for 2 seconds and pressing again.

I'm waiting for a new motor, o bought one for a ktm that is equal to this, i hope that the new motor will solve this issue once and for all!!

Check the direction of spin on the motor prior to installation. I believe that I read somewhere that when someone replaced their motor with a ktm starter motor, it did not turn in the correct direction.
 
Check the direction of spin on the motor prior to installation. I believe that I read somewhere that when someone replaced their motor with a ktm starter motor, it did not turn in the correct direction.

Thank you, i'm aware of that, need to turn it 180? to spin in the correct direction for the gasgas.
 
A really good easy test to see if a starter motor has the grunt to work in place is take the starter out and hook it up to a set of jumper leads. Then push the starter gear into a piece of hard wood. It should be able to grind its way through easily. Yours does sound funny in your video. Are you holding the button down in the second video or stabbing at the button?

Short question, Nate - Is it OK to run these motorcycle starters without load?

-------

Long version - My bike wouldn't start, so I tried turning it over 5-6 times with some rest in between for the starter to cool. The last time, all I got were "clicks". I thought the battery went dead. Turns out, the starter burned up (windings were fried).

Then, while waiting for a new OEM starter to come in, I tried one of the $49 versions (for a KTM, which btw fit fine. It was a bit larger in diameter - so had to slightly move the ground cable where it rubbed to get the splines to line up correctly). I don't want to bad-talk this starter, because I didn't know how to reverse polarity correctly, and took the thing clear apart. Getting the brushes back in was not easy, and I may have messed something up. But it never did crank well. I pulled it out of the bendix gear and turned it over "free-wheeling", without any resistance. It died/fried just free-spinning! Click-click!

New OEM replacement starter came. Installed, it ran backward. My dealer called and said they got a bad batch, and a new one is coming. But now the "backward spinning" replacement has a faint "burnt electrical" smell as well - and it never saw any load!

This makes me wonder if (a) running them "free" creates friction from spinning too fast, or (b) if there is some other problem with my electrical system that sends too many amps to the starter. The battery is showing approx. 13.9 volts.

Can a regulator (or something) go bad and fry starters? I don't want to wreck the new one when it comes!

Thanks,

Jeff
 
Unlikely that a 12 volt battery will fry a 12 volt starter. the regulator is between the magneto and ground to charge the battery and provide 12vDC on the bike, so not in circuit for the starter.

Only thing in circuit that I can think of is the starter solenoid. Which is generic.

Start button energises the solenoid which connects it to the battery.
 
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