2019 ec300 fuel

[Davehuge]

Not really even close imo.

I measured up the JD needles. The blue is closer to an F diameter OEM needle. The red being around a H (slightly richer than the W).

JD needles are dual taper only, and lean off heavily towards WOT.

The Suzuki needles above are 3 taper and supply a load of fuel towards WOT.

A closer comparison to the JD Red needle would be the N3CH which you see many people are very happy with.

Thanks Jakobi, does that just apply to the later AS2 carb or would that needle also suit the older AS1 carb?

 

[Jakobi]

Thanks Jakobi, does that just apply to the later AS2 carb or would that needle also suit the older AS1 carb?

Generally speaking the older AS1 carbs preferred diameters in the F/G range.. The newer AS2 ranges between H, W, J depending on a few factors.

From all accounts it appears the AS2 just provides a bit more velocity/signal at smaller openings requiring a leaner setup to pull the same fuel.

 

[Davehuge]

Hi all
I have also just bought a 19 a week ago and a similar issue ...have done about 100 miles running it in and started to wind it up ready to race at the weekend ..i too noticed a very loud bang/knock from the cylinder when shutting off and rolling down big hills and dose not run very smooth when pottering on the road around 1/8 throttle .. ..l have dropped the pilot jet down to 40 which has made a bit of improvement and the spooge out of the exhaust has about gone ..but still have oiled two plugs..both while warming up the bike ...if my thinking is right it is still rich on the pilot as the engine starts instantly with out choke?

i am just going to check float height and try a 38 pilot jet as my next step ( my old 2012 racing i used to run 178 main 35 pilot and a EE needle ..but still was never good around 1/4 throttle )

at the moment I'm running Motul 800.. 90cc to 5 litres (55:1) 175 Main 40 pilot and the EF needle middle clip sea level about 12 to 14 degrees c. Isle of Man UK

any help would greatly appreciated ...apart from this jetting issue the bike is fantastic and definitely confidence building compared to the 12 :O)

Congratulations on your new bike!

Banging noise (burning fuel in the exhaust), fouling plugs, starts easily without choke... I think you've already worked out what's wrong.

Running rich, so check float height then try one/all of the suggested needles or maybe a JD Jetting Kit?

Good luck, Dave.

 

[Herdy]

Thanks Dave
glad to hear I'm heading in the right direction
all put back together ready for a test run tomorrow.
the Suzuki needle sounds interesting ..just need to source one to give it a go

 

[taylor146]

Hi
I've had a 18 300 for nearly a year now and have struggled to get the bike running right with UK spec fuel(99 shell v max). Currently running near perfect with NEDH 42p and 178 main@ 50:1. More importantly though using S3 head with black insert 13:1 instead of standard head 13.85:1

 

[Davehuge]

In case anyone's interested...

I was digging around and found this info on the Suzuki NE** needles:

 

[Doc Brown]

Tell him to get some kits for sale on eBay UK, as far as I can see he'd be the only person selling them in Europe! I might buy one myself!

Dave, there are dealers selling JD kits, MXG in Austria, Bergos in Germany, Heinzls Bikeshop Germany, Waine Mounter in Wales (UK), ...

Thanks for sharing the charts, much appreciated!

 

[Doc Brown]

l have dropped the pilot jet down to 40 which has made a bit of improvement and the spooge out of the exhaust has about gone ..but still have oiled two plugs..both while warming up the bike ...if my thinking is right it is still rich on the pilot as the engine starts instantly with out choke?

i am just going to check float height and try a 38 pilot jet as my next step

at the moment I'm running Motul 800.. 90cc to 5 litres (55:1) 175 Main 40 pilot and the EF needle middle clip sea level about 12 to 14 degrees c. Isle of Man UK

Hi Herdy,

I would not recommend the 38 pilot jet. Had similar problems on my 2018 bike and after discussing the issue with James (Dean) he recommended not to use anything smaller than a 40 pilot jet.
The stock needle seems to be the problem and additionally the too high float level.
The Motul 800 has an incredibly high flash point of 253 degrees Celsius and if you are not a very fast rider being WOT most of the time its not the right oil. Other oils have a lower flash point and burn without residue and reduce spooge.
The 2018 and 2019 Gassers seem to produce more spooge than its predecessors. I know 4 guys owing 2018's, GP's as well as EC's they all have the spooge problem. One of them belongs to the fastest guys on the planet and is a factory rider and even his has a little spooge on the can.

Hope you'll get it sorted soon and can enjoy this brilliant bike.

BTW, it seems that the US petrol is different to what we use in Europe...

Cheers
Doc

 

[Herdy]

Hi Herdy,

I would not recommend the 38 pilot jet. Had similar problems on my 2018 bike and after discussing the issue with James (Dean) he recommended not to use anything smaller than a 40 pilot jet.
The stock needle seems to be the problem and additionally the too high float level.
The Motul 800 has an incredibly high flash point of 253 degrees Celsius and if you are not a very fast rider being WOT most of the time its not the right oil. Other oils have a lower flash point and burn without residue and reduce spooge.
The 2018 and 2019 Gassers seem to produce more spooge than its predecessors. I know 4 guys owing 2018's, GP's as well as EC's they all have the spooge problem. One of them belongs to the fastest guys on the planet and is a factory rider and even his has a little spooge on the can.

Hope you'll get it sorted soon and can enjoy this brilliant bike.

BTW, it seems that the US petrol is different to what we use in Europe...

Cheers
Doc

Hi Doc
I took a ride out last night on the road to the test we are setting out for this weekends local enduro..with the 38 pilot in it was a lot smoother around the 1/8 throttle but still a bit messy around the 1/4 throttle on the road ...also a lot less pipe bang when shut off and rolling..
around the field test after a few drag races against a 19 250ec i did notice the revs hang up a little .so adjusted the air screw in to about 1 turn out and all was good..(there was a little spooge still on the pipe) ..it was starting to get a bit cold by then so might of made things a bit richer..


Today I have been thinking i will go back up to a 40 pilot for the enduro then see if i can get hold of a Suzuki or yam needle to try next weekend.
i am considering going on to the motal 710 ..like you say has a lesser flash point plus im getting older and wiser not faster

we had Danny McCannys 18 Gp practise bike out there as well and Juan knight as a test pilot..after a lap one each he reckons the my 19 standard is on par with the 18 GP

 

[Doc Brown]

Hello Herdy,

good to see you are improving the GG's settings. You'll see the needle will change a lot. The standard needles straight sector is a bit short hence it burbles a bit low down, which can be improved by a smaller pilot jet. But that masks the real problem. I am pretty sure with a different needle you will get close to pefect without the need of a leaner pilot jet.

After talking a lot to the JD guys I decided to live with a little bit of spooge, its nothing serious. A bit annoying maybe.

I'd love to see McCanny ride or anyone of the Knights. Though I am old and slow I can confirm what Julian said. As I have both, a GP18 and an RC19 I can say the 2019 feels stronger. Maybe the new ignition system and cylinder head makes the difference....

Cheers Doc

PS is there a British GG forum?

 

[mrquick]

Update of today's progress

Just a quick update on the jetting situation, so I re set the float , I have changed the needle to a N1EG its just a test until the JD kit arrives, also put the clip on No2 position and finally put a 40 pilot in, I went out for a try out and noticed a marked improvement 1 . pulls clean from idle, mid range was nice and snappy, no more banging when shut off on decents...
I am just a bit concerned on the colour of plug when I can back only did about 8 miles of mixed riding fast open and then dropped on to a little mx track near me and did a few laps...

https://www.flickr.com/gp/143285930@N08/LLV5ah

 

[Davehuge]

I don't think you've done enough miles to get a good reading on the plug, but even if you have, to be honest I only use plug readings for checking the Main Jet size after completing a 'Plug Chop'.

You've put an 8 spark plug back in haven't you?

I suspect that even with the N1EG needle and standard main jet you're still pretty rich and not running dangerously lean. Pretty sure it'll be fine to run like that until your JD kit arrives.

Looking forward to hearing how you get on with the JD kit. I got a price from Advantage Offroad for the JD kit... 85 GBP without p&p. Bit too pricey for me.

I'm running the N1EG needle at the moment, it's working well but going to see if I can improve it further, going to try the Suzuki NE** needle, probably a NECW or NECJ, about 10 GBP each.

Unfortunately I won't be able to try it until next spring, going back to the UK for Christmas, then off to India for 3 months, won't be back home to my bikes until April 2019.

 

[mrquick]

I don't think you've done enough miles to get a good reading on the plug, but even if you have, to be honest I only use plug readings for checking the Main Jet size after completing a 'Plug Chop'.

You've put an 8 spark plug back in haven't you?

I suspect that even with the N1EG needle and standard main jet you're still pretty rich and not running dangerously lean. Pretty sure it'll be fine to run like that until your JD kit arrives.

Looking forward to hearing how you get on with the JD kit. I got a price from Advantage Offroad for the JD kit... 85 GBP without p&p. Bit too pricey for me.

I'm running the N1EG needle at the moment, it's working well but going to see if I can improve it further, going to try the Suzuki NE** needle, probably a NECW or NECJ, about 10 GBP each.

Unfortunately I won't be able to try it until next spring, going back to the UK for Christmas, then off to India for 3 months, won't be back home to my bikes until April 2019.

Hi Dave ye I have put a 8 back in ??? where is the bst place to get a suzuki needle from ? 85 is a bit steep, I what do you think about leaving the 40 pilot in ??? I cannot make my mind up...

 

[mrquick]

Hi Dave ye I have put a 8 back in ??? where is the bst place to get a suzuki needle from ? 85 is a bit steep, I what do you think about leaving the 40 pilot in ??? I cannot make my mind up...

Just found the suzuki needle NECW ?18.00 from bekers world in Birmingham, should be with me for tuesday...

 

[Davehuge]

Just found the suzuki needle NECW ?18.00 from bekers world in Birmingham, should be with me for tuesday...

Once you get the NECW needle in, see what's happening with the 40 Pilot, if it's within the 1 to 2 turns out range then it's fine.

Let us know how you get on with it...

 

[mrquick]

Hi guys its not a jetting question but what gear oil are we using I am confused what to put in ????????

 

[Davehuge]

Haha, get ready for 101 different answers!

Manual specifies 10w30 or 5w40, that's fine. No need to go overboard buying expensive fully synthetic engine oil, just a good quality mineral oil or semi synthetic will he fine.

That's my opinion!

 

[Jakobi]

Haha, get ready for 101 different answers!

Manual specifies 10w30 or 5w40, that's fine. No need to go overboard buying expensive fully synthetic engine oil, just a good quality mineral oil or semi synthetic will he fine.

That's my opinion!

I like to splurge and buy a decent ATF, type F. synthetic. Works out reasonable. Lasts a good time between changes, and has been designed to work with everything you find in a wet transmission! Hard to go wrong.

 

[mrquick]

I like to splurge and buy a decent ATF, type F. synthetic. Works out reasonable. Lasts a good time between changes, and has been designed to work with everything you find in a wet transmission! Hard to go wrong.

I am going to give the ATF a try, I have run loads of classic bikes on it and never had a issue, thanks guys

 

[Davehuge]

I'm sure the ATF will be fine.

Unlike other 2 strokes I've had, on the GasGas the gearbox box oil gets contaminated with spooge and carbon from the power valve/exhaust valve via the hole the exhaust valve linkage comes up through (right side power valve cover).

Because of this I prefer to use a cheaper oil and change it more often, rather than an expensive oil and leave it in there longer, just my personal preference.

This is what I use, bought from the supermarket here in France. However, you must remember my bike's a well used 2004 model, everything's quite loose, unlike your nice, shiny, new bike!

Also, I'm a fair weather rider, it's usually 25 to 35 degrees Celsius when I'm out!

All the best, Dave.