bukwheat
New member
Wow, this is no surprise coming from you. You have an hard on for the GG USA, don't you....
Dirt Rider 300 2 stroke shoot out
- Thread starter bukwheat
- Start date
Wow, this is no surprise coming from you. You have an hard on for the GG USA, don't you....
thumperflipper
New member
Editor's opinion
A couple years ago DR published a 300 comparo that didn't include GasGas. I whined to Jimmy Lewis about it. here is my letter and his answer: (Remember a couple years or so ago, like late 2011)
Dear DR:
In the spring I'm planning on buying a 300, so I was ecstatic when your
cover advertised a 300cc comparison. And the contents page stoked me
even more when I read "the top three 300cc two strokes". But alas, when
I turned to page 56 and found not two but THREE KTM products I threw
your magazine across the room. I now apologize for the terrible things I
said about you, and my wife has since taken me off self-harm monitoring
and given me my pocket knife back. But really, what gives? Did you miss
Erzberg this year? Dougie Lampkin took second (that's 2nd place) (edit: actually it was third) on a GasGas 300. And that was on an injured ankle. If that race doesn't prove the Gasser as a tough 300 I don't know what does. The bottom line is I would like to have ANY of the new 300's, but I have a 30 inch inseam, and the GasGas advertises a shorter seat height. So that is where I'm leaning. But I would have loved to hear your opinion on on the pros and cons of the newest Gasser and how it compares to the KTM 300 products.
BTW, I'm not mad at you anymore, and I hope you forgive me.
cheers
eric
Jimmy's reply:
Eric,
We intended to have all the 300s in that comparison. Gas Gas did not
have 2012s yet, TM was between shipments of bikes and the 300 Husky has
not changed and it would have been slaughtered in weight feel,
suspension performance and hard starting. So we just focused on what we
had and what we knew. In reality for most riders, these are the three
best choices for a number of reasons including dealer networks and parts
availability. But that is not to say that the Gas Gas could not
challenge any one of these bikes for the right rider. In the past I have
preferred the Gas Gas over the KTM until just recently. I liked the way
the Gas Gas handled, the six-speed gear boxes and the style of the power
deliver on the GG, but I will have to confess, I have not ridden a new
one lately (I want to) and the KTMs have really improved in every area I
just listed off. I'm not sure about the shorter seat height version but
I can see where that is a concern for some riders and the ability of Gas
Gas to cater to a niche market is the advantage they have a s a smaller
manufacturer and it may just be the use of a shortened seat, a product
that is available from a number of aftermarket suppliers for KTM.
As for The Erzberg result, that is the rider. How do I know? I finished
Erzberg two times on a Gas Gas 250 so don't call me biased.
JIMMY
He inlcluded a pic of him at Erzberg but not sure if I can attach it. lets see
A couple years ago DR published a 300 comparo that didn't include GasGas. I whined to Jimmy Lewis about it. here is my letter and his answer: (Remember a couple years or so ago, like late 2011)
Dear DR:
In the spring I'm planning on buying a 300, so I was ecstatic when your
cover advertised a 300cc comparison. And the contents page stoked me
even more when I read "the top three 300cc two strokes". But alas, when
I turned to page 56 and found not two but THREE KTM products I threw
your magazine across the room. I now apologize for the terrible things I
said about you, and my wife has since taken me off self-harm monitoring
and given me my pocket knife back. But really, what gives? Did you miss
Erzberg this year? Dougie Lampkin took second (that's 2nd place) (edit: actually it was third) on a GasGas 300. And that was on an injured ankle. If that race doesn't prove the Gasser as a tough 300 I don't know what does. The bottom line is I would like to have ANY of the new 300's, but I have a 30 inch inseam, and the GasGas advertises a shorter seat height. So that is where I'm leaning. But I would have loved to hear your opinion on on the pros and cons of the newest Gasser and how it compares to the KTM 300 products.
BTW, I'm not mad at you anymore, and I hope you forgive me.
cheers
eric
Jimmy's reply:
Eric,
We intended to have all the 300s in that comparison. Gas Gas did not
have 2012s yet, TM was between shipments of bikes and the 300 Husky has
not changed and it would have been slaughtered in weight feel,
suspension performance and hard starting. So we just focused on what we
had and what we knew. In reality for most riders, these are the three
best choices for a number of reasons including dealer networks and parts
availability. But that is not to say that the Gas Gas could not
challenge any one of these bikes for the right rider. In the past I have
preferred the Gas Gas over the KTM until just recently. I liked the way
the Gas Gas handled, the six-speed gear boxes and the style of the power
deliver on the GG, but I will have to confess, I have not ridden a new
one lately (I want to) and the KTMs have really improved in every area I
just listed off. I'm not sure about the shorter seat height version but
I can see where that is a concern for some riders and the ability of Gas
Gas to cater to a niche market is the advantage they have a s a smaller
manufacturer and it may just be the use of a shortened seat, a product
that is available from a number of aftermarket suppliers for KTM.
As for The Erzberg result, that is the rider. How do I know? I finished
Erzberg two times on a Gas Gas 250 so don't call me biased.
JIMMY
He inlcluded a pic of him at Erzberg but not sure if I can attach it. lets see
Attachments
Its interesting that the only repeated gripe about the Gassers is a nebulous weight issue, which in stock form is only around 8 pounds different(see my other thread) different than the Beta. I never hear that the Beta turns better, has a more powerful engine, or superior brakes or superior suspension.
I've seen a couple of Betas and I'm not drinking the Beta Kool-Aid. They are a nice bike but IMHO they aren't superior in any subtantial way to the Gassers. Also, nobody knows how well they will hold up to longterm use. The magazines don't exist without advertising dollars and right now KTM and Beta are pouring cash into advertising. In a bad economy the magazine owners/employees don't bite the hand that feeds them even if they say otherwise.
I've seen a couple of Betas and I'm not drinking the Beta Kool-Aid. They are a nice bike but IMHO they aren't superior in any subtantial way to the Gassers. Also, nobody knows how well they will hold up to longterm use. The magazines don't exist without advertising dollars and right now KTM and Beta are pouring cash into advertising. In a bad economy the magazine owners/employees don't bite the hand that feeds them even if they say otherwise.
Vindicator
New member
I, as well, think it's a matter of $$$ . I also think that is confusing to some people how an elderly engine of a GG performs so well as the most recent ones with minor tweaks. This also applies to frames up to 2011. While every other brand would send out new engines and frames to have something to show for each year, GG stuck with what was already quite good and simply refined it . This caused in the general population the sense that it was an outdated setup. I simply love it and I couldn't care less for the weight factor. But because WEC is where it's measured the value of enduro bikes, all brands tend to develop their bikes as close it can get to f"$%"$% MX 
. I don't really have much appreciation for the current WEC model these days. Love the racing atmosphere around it but I'm more and more surrendering to GNCC as they do ride what we usually find in our trails. I also think that real enduro is what you can find in some extreme enduro races like Romaniacs and Roof of Africa. I like GG because it's different on how it handles and feels and because it puts a grin on my face when riding it.
. I don't really have much appreciation for the current WEC model these days. Love the racing atmosphere around it but I'm more and more surrendering to GNCC as they do ride what we usually find in our trails. I also think that real enduro is what you can find in some extreme enduro races like Romaniacs and Roof of Africa. I like GG because it's different on how it handles and feels and because it puts a grin on my face when riding it.arminhammer
New member
I own a GasGas EC250-E and a Beta 300 and will tell you there is a whole lot more than 8lbs between them.
For me, the Beta has all the potential I can use and then some. This is true with a well set up GG or any bike out there on the market today, they all have capabilities well beyond my own, if I'm being honest.
What I liked about the Beta is that I tore it down when I first got it, greased everything, put it back together and started riding it. No need to seal up the airbox, R&D the subframe, cut the head, buy a jet kit - none of that. For me a lot of the appeal of a bike is to be ready to race and ride without all the garage drama. I've got three young kids, a business, 30 acres to keep up and I like to do other things besides wrench in the garage.
I am putting some guards on the Beta's pipe and radiators, and I sent the fork off for re-valving. That's stuff I'd do to a Yamaha, or a KTM or a GG. I look at suspension as something I have to spend money on to get sprung and valved for me.
Wouldn't it be great for GG if they came out of the factory jetted and geared correctly for woods riding and around sea level elevations. I'm not bashing, don't take it that way. Read other threads around hear and see that "low friction" ownership is what all of you are asking for.
The Beta isn't a quantum leap forward, but its fun to ride, easy to own, priced good and isn't orange (or yellow and blue). A great first year effort I'd say.
What I liked about the Beta is that I tore it down when I first got it, greased everything, put it back together and started riding it. No need to seal up the airbox, R&D the subframe, cut the head, buy a jet kit - none of that. For me a lot of the appeal of a bike is to be ready to race and ride without all the garage drama. I've got three young kids, a business, 30 acres to keep up and I like to do other things besides wrench in the garage.
I am putting some guards on the Beta's pipe and radiators, and I sent the fork off for re-valving. That's stuff I'd do to a Yamaha, or a KTM or a GG. I look at suspension as something I have to spend money on to get sprung and valved for me.
Wouldn't it be great for GG if they came out of the factory jetted and geared correctly for woods riding and around sea level elevations. I'm not bashing, don't take it that way. Read other threads around hear and see that "low friction" ownership is what all of you are asking for.
The Beta isn't a quantum leap forward, but its fun to ride, easy to own, priced good and isn't orange (or yellow and blue). A great first year effort I'd say.
roostafish
Gold Level Site Supporter
Just to add my $.02. I may have been drinking orange kool aide, but. The suspension on my '13 KTM is spot on. No need to send anywhere. BAM! Bike needs nothing. Just ticked over 70 hours after an ISDE this past weekend. Bike works flawlessly. I have but ONE complaint. THE REAR BRAKE SQUEAKS SO FREAKING LOUDLY THAT I WONDER WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON!! Not that this is new, because BOTH brakes squeaked like mad on my Gas Gas, just not quite as annoyingly, I keep wondering if it is going metal to metal, but the pads are stock, and in fine shape.
Beta Steve
New member
I think the Beta back wheel alone might be 8 pounds lighter. Of course I jest but it feels that way! My '11 GG 300 was [and is] a great ride that did not feel heavy once moving, all bikes benefit from jetting and suspension tweaks, but I just did not get along with the new frame. I love GG and it was a hard choice, but I literally sat on the floor picking apart each bike in my head for a long time, and went Italian. Wish the Sherco 2t would have been here to compare.
I'm not a kool aid drinker of any color, maybe next time I'll go blue...
I'm not a kool aid drinker of any color, maybe next time I'll go blue...
GMP
Active member
I'm with Hawkeye on this one. As much as I love the way a GG rides, I've reached the point in my life where it's just too much time and work getting it there. It used to be fun, learning a new bike and tinkering with it, making it better, but no more, not this much in 2013. Modern mfg. and QC practices have left the GG factory behind and its rearing its ugly head. Now there are new players trying very hard (and succeeding) to take what market share they can of what GG is squandering.
Both of my GGs are in excellent condition and the many quirks, large and small have been addressed. Any buyer will get a sound motorcycle better than new, and that's the truth. I've just done it for the last time. For the prices of new bikes now, I want and expect more, and I'm sure you do to.
Also like Hawkeye said any bike is more able than the rider. It's just that some are closer in fit and geometry to different riders, and this produces confidence. Confidence increases speed, so for an individual rider the bike will make some difference.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Both of my GGs are in excellent condition and the many quirks, large and small have been addressed. Any buyer will get a sound motorcycle better than new, and that's the truth. I've just done it for the last time. For the prices of new bikes now, I want and expect more, and I'm sure you do to.
Also like Hawkeye said any bike is more able than the rider. It's just that some are closer in fit and geometry to different riders, and this produces confidence. Confidence increases speed, so for an individual rider the bike will make some difference.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Coop
New member
Don't know if it was post, but Trailrider magazine has been doing a long term review of the GG300. It's on page 30 of this link.
http://trailridermagazine.uberflip.com/i/137347
http://trailridermagazine.uberflip.com/i/137347
rosco
Gold Level Site Supporter
I've never owned a bike that I didn't have to tweek a little to make it work for me. I can say though that the Gas Gas bikes seem to take less tweeking
than any other brand I've ever owned. Maybe for different area's and different types of riding they require more tweeking but for this area and my type of riding they just work. I know the Gas Gas is heavier than other bikes I have owned but the only time it bothers me is when I have to man handle it. The nice thing is I don't find myself in that position as much on this bike. It climbs like no other. Where I use to be stalling out or spinning out and falling over, now I just keep crawling.
I am a Gas Gas dealer so I am sure people are going to think that I am bias because of that but I am telling it as I see it. Hands down I have never rode another bike that works all around as good as a Gas Gas in our type of riding.
than any other brand I've ever owned. Maybe for different area's and different types of riding they require more tweeking but for this area and my type of riding they just work. I know the Gas Gas is heavier than other bikes I have owned but the only time it bothers me is when I have to man handle it. The nice thing is I don't find myself in that position as much on this bike. It climbs like no other. Where I use to be stalling out or spinning out and falling over, now I just keep crawling.
I am a Gas Gas dealer so I am sure people are going to think that I am bias because of that but I am telling it as I see it. Hands down I have never rode another bike that works all around as good as a Gas Gas in our type of riding.
StuJohnson
New member
Well I think it all depends on each others style of riding. If you're almost 40 like me and just out riding 2-3 times a month ans riding single track trails then re-engineering a bike is not necessary. Now if racing it every week then that's a different story.
Plus when you have 2 bikes
to re-engineer then YES I too would be tired and annoyed...Vindicator
New member
GMP
Active member
Stu,
Oh, most of it was neccessary, beleive me. Some was a preemptive strike on what would undoubtably be a failure down the road, and the rest was fixing design flaws that gave the bike a much cheaper feel than it should have for $8K, like the seat, how can you stand to ride a stock '12 seat? Its like sitting on a pool toy rolling around in the water as it flexes and cracks the battery box and base. There is very little support and the base itself is thin and weak. The front section places a lot of weight on the rear of the tank. When you add the normal dirt or mud there, the base plastic and tank start to wear at an alarming rate. I did not like this. I could go on and on but it does not matter if you race or not, the bike is the same. Did you pay less because you are not a racer? Of course not. Also, I have you beat by 14 years so that is not a variable here.
The '07 was good, no drama with that bike at all. Good day in Spain when it went together. I don't ride it much at all, in fact only twice since getting the '12 a year ago.
Oh, most of it was neccessary, beleive me. Some was a preemptive strike on what would undoubtably be a failure down the road, and the rest was fixing design flaws that gave the bike a much cheaper feel than it should have for $8K, like the seat, how can you stand to ride a stock '12 seat? Its like sitting on a pool toy rolling around in the water as it flexes and cracks the battery box and base. There is very little support and the base itself is thin and weak. The front section places a lot of weight on the rear of the tank. When you add the normal dirt or mud there, the base plastic and tank start to wear at an alarming rate. I did not like this. I could go on and on but it does not matter if you race or not, the bike is the same. Did you pay less because you are not a racer? Of course not. Also, I have you beat by 14 years so that is not a variable here.
The '07 was good, no drama with that bike at all. Good day in Spain when it went together.
I don't ride it much at all, in fact only twice since getting the '12 a year ago.
nknudsen
Member
Well I think it all depends on each others style of riding. If you're almost 40 like me and just out riding 2-3 times a month ans riding single track trails then re-engineering a bike is not necessary. Now if racing it every week then that's a different story.
Plus when you have 2 bikes
When I read this you sounded old to me until I realized I just turned 38yrs old.
Time goes too fast when you grow up!
