how to fix MOST clutch problems + cr250r clutch conversion.

[Jim Cook]

Does put a Suzuki thrust washer 2.0mm instead of stock 2.8 mm under clutch hub make sence (clutch hub to basket spacer) when converting to a CR250R cluth plates?
We have hydraulic clutch that push long clutch rod (which push pressure plate), so if overall plates pack size is bigger than standard (34.5mm CR250 vs 33.3mm GG300), then after additional 2-3 pushing clutch lever that long rod will be pushed forward that extra 1mm and stay there forever.

So i don't understand how changing thrust washer are changing something?
Besides that - basket, plates and pressure plate is one whole assembly, which moving inside (in engine) when changing that washer to thinner one - so really nothing happens to compensate new pack height of CR250 plates. Only 6 springs are more preloaded (~1mm), but i see you never feel that after conversion.
Does the way of my thoughts right?

Even though the push rod extends outward to take up the slack in the operation of the clutch, the thinner washer gives more freeplay in the clutch pack setup; which can decrease clutch drag.

My first GasGas importer told me that the reason that clutch drag was a bigger problem in our bikes was that there was very little free play in the clutch pack. In effect, "The tolerances are tighter in the GasGas clutch pack."
The thinner thrust washer would help with that, by adding 1 mm to the free play.

 

[Rampart]

So the clutch has 8 friction plates, and 7 steels...

Standard GG clutch

(2.85*8)+(1.5*7) = 33.3, where did 28.95 come from?

CR250R clutch

(3*8)+(1.5*7) = 34.5, where did 30 come from?


So 34.5-33.3 = 1.2, so if the spacer is originally 3mm, it should be reduced to 1.8, cool... BUT!

I have the same measurements.
BUT it sounds good on paper for me.
In fact, according to calculations, everything should work out.

In reality, i made spacer 1.5 mm, BUT nut pressed the hub so much, that it became one with the basket, and there can be no talk of clutch work. It looks like I need a 1.7mm spacer, BUT will the clutch pack fit?

 

[Nicktamps]

Hi all. Looking at doing this conversion. From what I have read there are different ways of doing it. I've got a 15 ec250. What's the easiest way of doing it? Also does that stack height actually make that much difference. As I would have thought the slave cylinder would take the slack up?

 

[Nicktamps]

Which part number are you all turning down?

 

[Jim Cook]

Hi all. Looking at doing this conversion. From what I have read there are different ways of doing it. I've got a 15 ec250. What's the easiest way of doing it? Also does that stack height actually make that much difference. As I would have thought the slave cylinder would take the slack up?

I can't answer your question directly, but I have no clutch drag on my 2011 EC250, and had no clutch drag on my 2006 DE300.
I accomplished this using the stock GG clutch components.

To accomplish this I did three things:
1. Made sure that the clutch hydraulics were completely bled of any air.
2. Made sure that the clutch master cylinder's actuation pin was not adjusted in to far and pushing the piston too far into the master cylinder. (this won't let the master cylinder self-bleed air while it's being used, causing problems.)
3. Started using 50ccc more oil than the factory recommends (1100cc on the '97-2000 models, and 1000cc on the 2001 and later models), and using Amsoil 0w40 synthetic Formula 4-Stroke Powersports Engine Oil in my transmissions.

When I was doing research for Rekluse, using their first generation auto clutch, i sometimes started my bike in gear without knowing it until I blipped the throttle. That led to some "picturesque" and very humorous to watch starting events.

This is some seriously good oil for your clutch and transmission. Plus, it stays pretty a lot longer than most other brands that I've tried.
https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-prod...ula-4-stroke-powersports-0w-40/?code=AFFQT-EA

I hope this helped a bit.

 

[Nicktamps]

Thank you very much. You have helped. I might just put a stock clutch back into it. Don't want to be messing about with it to much

 

[MuddyArgyle]

Alright, I'm trying to go the opposite direction of most people in this thread. My 2011 ec300 had a rekluse core exp 1.0 on it when I bought it. I've been riding trials a lot lately and want to go back to a manual clutch on the gasser.

I have the rekluse basket, inner hub and pressure plate. I also have a gasgas pressure plate, but not the hub or basket.

One idea I had was to just take out the exp disk and put in new friction and steel plates. I talked to rekluse and they said I could do that, but I'd need to buy the core manual pressure plate, but that's $200 plus the cost of the steels and frictions. I'm not sure I'd actually need the pressure plate, as I could just adjust the core pressure plate. I'd still need to replace the steel and friction plates. Do these have to be from rekluse or could I use cr250 plates?

The second option would be to source the OEM parts and replace them, but that might be tough.

So, if I buy the entire setup for a cr250, would it be a drop in replacement?

In summary, here are my questions:

Can I use cr250 plates in the rekluse basket and hub?
Can I use the rekluse basket and hub with no exp plate, but more other plates?
Could I just drop in the entire cr250 clutch assembly (basket, hub, plates, etc)?

 

[MuddyArgyle]

Alright, I'm trying to go the opposite direction of most people in this thread. My 2011 ec300 had a rekluse core exp 1.0 on it when I bought it. I've been riding trials a lot lately and want to go back to a manual clutch on the gasser.

I have the rekluse basket, inner hub and pressure plate. I also have a gasgas pressure plate, but not the hub or basket.

One idea I had was to just take out the exp disk and put in new friction and steel plates. I talked to rekluse and they said I could do that, but I'd need to buy the core manual pressure plate, but that's $200 plus the cost of the steels and frictions. I'm not sure I'd actually need the pressure plate, as I could just adjust the core pressure plate. I'd still need to replace the steel and friction plates. Do these have to be from rekluse or could I use cr250 plates?

The second option would be to source the OEM parts and replace them, but that might be tough.

So, if I buy the entire setup for a cr250, would it be a drop in replacement?

In summary, here are my questions:

Can I use cr250 plates in the rekluse basket and hub?
Can I use the rekluse basket and hub with no exp plate, but more other plates?
Could I just drop in the entire cr250 clutch assembly (basket, hub, plates, etc)?

Update/bump on my earlier post...

I bought cr250 friction plates and tried to install them without the exp plate. The pressure plate is way too tall to use without the exp plate, so that idea is out. I may just have to buy the core manual plate for $200.

If I do that though, I'm worried the cr250 plates will be too thick to use that setup as is, and I'll probably need to get creative with some washers in there.

On the other hand, I could maybe just buy the stock setup and go back to that, but my real goal here is to have a manual clutch with good feel that I can reliably find parts for longterm.

Any input is appreciated.

 

[Jim Cook]

If you can't find the OEM GasGas plates, the Moose Racing steel and fiber plates look just like the 2006 OEM GasGas pieces. I believe that DunlopPad (Tony Mills Racing in the UK) made the plates for Moose, and maybe the OEM plates for GasGas during that time period.

 

[LEON GORJAK]

When I put in 1st(holding in the clutch) my bike jumps and stalls

Hello.
I have EC300 2018 and I changed my friction plates in the clutch and changed the oil in the clutch but the problem I described above still exist.(The oil in transmition is changed I put in 10W30 bel-rey oil)
The problem is there when the bike is hot and cold.
Thanks.

 

[Doc Brown]

Hello.
I have EC300 2018 and I changed my friction plates in the clutch and changed the oil in the clutch but the problem I described above still exist.(The oil in transmition is changed I put in 10W30 bel-rey oil)
The problem is there when the bike is hot and cold.
Thanks.

My first 2019 had this problem and it was so bad that I sold the bike. I changed all components of the clutch twice, including basket, hub, pressure plate, push rod etc.

The only action that made it better was to change to ATF DEX II. It was significantly better afterwards.

You should have changed the steel plates instead of the friction plates because if they are warped they may cause what you described. Second thing is if your clutch basket has rattle marks you need to grind them off. And of course the system must be perfectly bled.