Opinion of Changes to US GG line for 2012

[Clay]

I was waiting for you to notice that. Here is what Clay would look like if he was a dog.

LOL, Scotty. Is that your dog?

 

[webmaster]

... A lot of you guys seem to have a lot of confidence in Les. I'm absolutely sure it's justified. The problem with going with one regional suspension tuner is that you tend to get a set up that works great in the kind of conditions that are in his area only. That may not be true of Les. He may have different set ups for different parts of the country. I need to get an opinion from several suspension gurus to try to hit something that may work for 75% of the riders out there. There is such a diversity in the east alone that it's hard to suit everyone. You have sand whoops in FL and rocks everywhere in NE. Throw in high speed desert stuff and it is tough to make evertyone happy! However, the biggest problem I see is that most of the stuff is valved/sprung for a 150 to 160 pound rider. We need to hit the 185 to 195 pound guy for the US because we eat more Big Macs.
Suspension ain't easy but we're on it!
Clay

Hi Clay,
Your comments and conclusions about Les at LT-Racing being a "regional suspension tuner" are way off.

75% of Les' work is from all different parts of the country where only 25% of his work is from local riders. He sets up for whatever terrain variety the rider specifies, along with their experience/skill and preferences.

Also, I think the terrain here in the Northwest is more varied than you think - in western washington and oregon we have rain forest and eastern type conditions - some areas a hard snotty clay, some areas are glacial rock with sand. Roots, rocks, sand whoops.

As you go to the east we have mountain goat trails on alpine ridgetops. As you progress to the east it smooths out and transitions into open pine forests - then into high altitude desert with sagebrush and rock with sand and miles and miles of whoops. This variety of terrain is all within a 150 mile radius of either Seattle or Portland.

Outside of this area - Les has also ridden baja mexico several times with friends from American Honda... And he has set up suspension for baja as well...

Jeff

 

[Boomhauer]

Damn...just finished my last beer!

Well then go get another case or 2 Clay.

For what it is worth my Berg does not come apart with just one or two sized fasteners.

Once you own a gas gas for any lenghth of time you become use to it. Like Glenn I could tear down my GG and have it back together within a 2 hour window. Heck you can even pull the rear shock off without having to remove a whole bunch of crap in less than 20 minutes. Now the pre 07's were even worse. I can't count on one hand how many times I stripped the seat bolt inserts out just by changing my air filter.

Keep up the good work Clay! Oh yeah and have another Silver Bullet on me.
BTW I can pull the Berg's rear shock off in 20 seconds!

 

[webmaster]

Jeff,
In 8 days this thread has had 156 replies and 3971 views. Is that a record?
Clay

I think so!

And just an FYI - To get more fine grained feedback from the community you can also post polls on the forum here if something is still in doubt - this allows the "lurker" type guys to quickly express their preferences....

Jeff

 

[roostafish]

I can't help myself here.
We were asked what we would change if we could. If I could change anything, I would make captive fasteners of some type on the back side of the subframe.

 

[Bobt250]

I can't resist saying that captive fasteners suck when they strip out. That being said they are probably better over all. I haven't spent much time working on mine yet but I have every size wrench in the tool box....I'll get-er-dunn.

Clay,

I know I don't really need to say this but I will anyway. I see a lot of passion in these posts. People who are passionate about riding and about their bikes. I think the people here love their bikes....I do. I wouldn't want the guys in Spain to think otherwise. What I see is people talking about something they love and making it perfect even though it's already close. Your ear brings that out here because you are willing to spend the time to listen.

Thanks

 

[dank]

just a flash though on the tank issue. if the rest of the world doesnt really want a bigger tank, then why not just buy a bigger aftermarket one if you want it. its cheaper for the company, and if it would add a 300$ price bump onto the bike stock, why not put that 300 towards the aftermarket and let the bikes price stay down.
and i have to agree with bob, id rather use two wrenches than strip out a captive fastener.

 

[Vindicator]

just a flash though on the tank issue. if the rest of the world doesnt really want a bigger tank, then why not just buy a bigger aftermarket one if you want it. its cheaper for the company, and if it would add a 300$ price bump onto the bike stock, why not put that 300 towards the aftermarket and let the bikes price stay down.
and i have to agree with bob, id rather use two wrenches than strip out a captive fastener.

The rest of the world does not have a choice...only Clarke makes an aftermarket tank for GG and it's hard to find in Europe (not to say Portugal).
GG has a 12 litre fuel tank from its 2009 powerparts catalog, serial# BE250610124 but it was too expensive to be bought,roughly 400? .
Apparently no one knows if they still make this tank or if it will fit the 2010/2011 bikes, but it would be good to know

I for sure would appreciate a bigger tank, I don't like to limit my rides to 60/70Kms, the 11,5 litre tank from my XC-W is a + .

 

[ScottyR]

LOL, Scotty. Is that your dog?

No. I have a real dog (Golden Retriever). I just googled "fat, little, dog".

 

[gasser]

The rest of the world does not have a choice...only Clarke makes an aftermarket tank for GG and it's hard to find in Europe (not to say Portugal).
GG has a 12 litre fuel tank from its 2009 powerparts catalog, serial# BE250610124 but it was too expensive to be bought,roughly 400? .
Apparently no one knows if they still make this tank or if it will fit the 2010/2011 bikes, but it would be good to know

I for sure would appreciate a bigger tank, I don't like to limit my rides to 60/70Kms, the 11,5 litre tank from my XC-W is a + .

I agree with Vindicator an eleven liter tank(2.9 gal) would be fine it would give an extra 10 mile (15km) range. I went the aftermarket route and got Clark's 3.2 gallon tank for my 07 gasser but it is much, much wider at the front and looks weird because the edge of the shrouds no longer tuck up under the seat. I consider the 2.9 gallon tank the biggest advantage KTM has over GasGas.

 

[hudson_hollow]

I run the Clarke tank on my 08. I took it off of the 04 when I sold it. It took a little mod, but works great. I don't have a problem with the bikes coming with the small tanks. They are much easier to move around on with the small tank, but I ride in Colorado pretty often and also race a few hare scrambles so the big tank is necessary for me. Like cutting bars down to ride/race in the tight Eastern woods, I don't mind having to do a little extra work to make my bike perform in special conditions. Making bikes that are custom fit for all of our needs would put Gas Gas back into the confusing model syndrome.

 

[Bobt250]

Guy I know put a bigger tank on his '11. Don't know what size it is but it has the big nutcracker in front of the seat and wings under the shrouds that push them out farther. If that's what it takes to add fuel then I don't want it. I figured it's possible to get a couple extra 10ths by doing a better job filling the available space underneath.

 

[Clay]

Hi Clay,
Your comments and conclusions about Les at LT-Racing being a "regional suspension tuner" are way off.

75% of Les' work is from all different parts of the country where only 25% of his work is from local riders. He sets up for whatever terrain variety the rider specifies, along with their experience/skill and preferences.

Also, I think the terrain here in the Northwest is more varied than you think - in western washington and oregon we have rain forest and eastern type conditions - some areas a hard snotty clay, some areas are glacial rock with sand. Roots, rocks, sand whoops.

As you go to the east we have mountain goat trails on alpine ridgetops. As you progress to the east it smooths out and transitions into open pine forests - then into high altitude desert with sagebrush and rock with sand and miles and miles of whoops. This variety of terrain is all within a 150 mile radius of either Seattle or Portland.

Outside of this area - Les has also ridden baja mexico several times with friends from American Honda... And he has set up suspension for baja as well...

Jeff

Jeff,
Thanks for putting me straight on Les' experience. I was recently talking to a guy from northern Alabama who had his suspension revalved by a guy in central Florida. He said it was deflecting off of roots and rocks. I pointed out to him that he prolly should have used someone from a rooty/rocky area rather than a sand whoop area. The point I was trying to make is how often I hear things like this and there are not that many suspension tuners who have a view of everything a suspension manufacturer has to consider. Trying to hit a mid point for customers in a country as varied as the US is hard to do. Maybe using Les was a bad example.
Thanks,
Clay

 

[Vindicator]

I figured it's possible to get a couple extra 10ths by doing a better job filling the available space underneath.

I also think so, someone just needs to try it

 

[roostafish]

Tiny oil fill hole.

 

[Clay]

I can't help myself here.
We were asked what we would change if we could. If I could change anything, I would make captive fasteners of some type on the back side of the subframe.

Roostafish,
On this thread, we were discussing changes at the model level not down to the nuts and bolts. On another thread we were discussing the small detail changes. I know they're all starting to run together for me, too. Anyway....I agree with you and the fastener thing are on my list.
Thanks for the input.
Clay

 

[Clay]

I can't resist saying that captive fasteners suck when they strip out. That being said they are probably better over all. I haven't spent much time working on mine yet but I have every size wrench in the tool box....I'll get-er-dunn.

Clay,

I know I don't really need to say this but I will anyway. I see a lot of passion in these posts. People who are passionate about riding and about their bikes. I think the people here love their bikes....I do. I wouldn't want the guys in Spain to think otherwise. What I see is people talking about something they love and making it perfect even though it's already close. Your ear brings that out here because you are willing to spend the time to listen.

Thanks

Bob...EXCELLENT POINT! Thanks!
clay

 

[Clay]

just a flash though on the tank issue. if the rest of the world doesnt really want a bigger tank, then why not just buy a bigger aftermarket one if you want it. its cheaper for the company, and if it would add a 300$ price bump onto the bike stock, why not put that 300 towards the aftermarket and let the bikes price stay down.
and i have to agree with bob, id rather use two wrenches than strip out a captive fastener.

Dank,
A bigger tank wouldn't add that much. Actually, if we order 1000 units next year it would only add about $1 to the cost of the bikes. I prolly worded that example wrong.
Clay

 

[REVERUP]

Guy I know put a bigger tank on his '11. Don't know what size it is but it has the big nutcracker in front of the seat and wings under the shrouds that push them out farther. If that's what it takes to add fuel then I don't want it. I figured it's possible to get a couple extra 10ths by doing a better job filling the available space underneath.

I agree. I truly would rather continue to pit and pack fuel on long rides than sacrifice performance and have a bulky width at the tank. That's exactly why I never bought one of the aftermarket tanks available. I would be happy with a liter more that would get my range up and probably not add to much girth or hight to the tank.

One of the issues with the perimeter frame is there is only so much room down low. After that it has to be added up and out top of the frame making it taller and wider. look at the ec 250F the tank is taller cause that 4 stroke motor is taller in the chassis along with a hot header pipe needing space for safety.

Roscoe

 

[GMP]

I'm with Bobt and Roscoe on this one.