It seems as though the 300's like to run a little leaner in the middle than the 250's, hence the #2 position on the NEDW needle for the 300's. Which makes sense.Where as the guys with the 200's will more than likely want to go even richer in the middle than the 250's. It may even push them into an NECH needle.
Revised Jetting Specs NEDW
- Thread starter Jakobi
- Start date
don
Jako:
If you are in #2 with a W needle you should try (maybe you have and I missed it) a J needle in #3. You mentioned lower openings; index your throttle and see where it really is, my guess is it's in the 1/8th area. Assuming your reeds are good that area is influenced by the cut of the slide and needle diameter. Hard starting is a too lean pilot/air screw setting (using the choke to start a warm engine).
Just a thought.
Jako:
If you are in #2 with a W needle you should try (maybe you have and I missed it) a J needle in #3. You mentioned lower openings; index your throttle and see where it really is, my guess is it's in the 1/8th area. Assuming your reeds are good that area is influenced by the cut of the slide and needle diameter. Hard starting is a too lean pilot/air screw setting (using the choke to start a warm engine).
Just a thought.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Hey Don. You haven't missed it. I haven't ordered the NEDJ yet but based on my findings so far if I did I would still be running it in clip 2. The needle while in clip 3 is far too rich right across the board.
Tomorrow I plan to test out the 38 NEDW2 170. Listening back over my video of different setups the NEDW2 definately sounds the strongest. If I can't have a win with this then I'll be ordering a J and pairing it with a 40P again.
To be honest I'm an obsessive compulsive tinkerer. Can't get enough of it. Just hope it can help a few others out along the way.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
I thought you were.. It was at the top of your reply. Hahah!!
I definately have the bike sickness.. Sick in the head.. I think sometimes all this messing with it is just another excuse to start it up and take it for a ride..
More testing done.. Still not 100% happy.. Ended up going to 40 N3EJ (yamaha needle) 175 just for comparison. The n3 definately has more of a mid range snap to it. The J taper also allows me to clean up the bottom end a bit more without burbling or having to lift the clip. I've just ordered 2 more needles NEDJ and NECJ and hope to have one of them hit the spot. Probably NEDJ#2. I have spare needles if anyone needs some to test
I definately have the bike sickness.. Sick in the head.. I think sometimes all this messing with it is just another excuse to start it up and take it for a ride..
More testing done.. Still not 100% happy.. Ended up going to 40 N3EJ (yamaha needle) 175 just for comparison. The n3 definately has more of a mid range snap to it. The J taper also allows me to clean up the bottom end a bit more without burbling or having to lift the clip. I've just ordered 2 more needles NEDJ and NECJ and hope to have one of them hit the spot. Probably NEDJ#2. I have spare needles if anyone needs some to test
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skid jackson
New member
nedw in 2011 250 6days
so I've played around with this needle a bit.
Sunday I was running a 45 pilot, 175 main, #2 slot
elevation 700ft above sea level temp 50f
in the 2 slot the bike seemed a bit lean eveywhere. enough to make me think this ain't right and to go back to the truck. I raised the needle to the #3 slot. much better it seemed a bit rich off the bottom and a bit lean in the mid and top but the bike ran alot better than in the 2 slot. If I knew the temps were going to stay in the 50's I would try the 42. However the cold is moving in and I need to think about starting the day in the mid to high 30's and having the temps go up to 60 or just stay in the 30's 40's or 50's all day.
Whats the coldest temp you'd run a 42 in??
the 45 was too lean in the 2 slot but a little rich in the 3 slot
would a 42 in the 3 slot be more/less lean than a 45 in the 2 slot??
sounds like I'm getting down to splitting hairs
my plan is to leave the 45 in for the cold, 3 slot and maybe bump up to a 178 for peace of mind and deal with the rich condition
42/175 with the needle in the 4 slot be the same??
both the n1ef and nedw seem to make the bike a bit lean in the mid and top
that said I like the nedw much better
so I've played around with this needle a bit.
Sunday I was running a 45 pilot, 175 main, #2 slot
elevation 700ft above sea level temp 50f
in the 2 slot the bike seemed a bit lean eveywhere. enough to make me think this ain't right and to go back to the truck. I raised the needle to the #3 slot. much better it seemed a bit rich off the bottom and a bit lean in the mid and top but the bike ran alot better than in the 2 slot. If I knew the temps were going to stay in the 50's I would try the 42. However the cold is moving in and I need to think about starting the day in the mid to high 30's and having the temps go up to 60 or just stay in the 30's 40's or 50's all day.
Whats the coldest temp you'd run a 42 in??
the 45 was too lean in the 2 slot but a little rich in the 3 slot
would a 42 in the 3 slot be more/less lean than a 45 in the 2 slot??
sounds like I'm getting down to splitting hairs
my plan is to leave the 45 in for the cold, 3 slot and maybe bump up to a 178 for peace of mind and deal with the rich condition
42/175 with the needle in the 4 slot be the same??
both the n1ef and nedw seem to make the bike a bit lean in the mid and top
that said I like the nedw much better
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Very strange that you find yourself falling lean on top with both the n13 and nED range as they both have a rich 3rd taper that would usually require a smaller main. The n3 range has a lean mid/top end.
I have found the needle straight diameter to have a pretty big influence over the burble just off idle. If I leaned out the pilot enough to clean up the off idle stutter I'd get a racing idle and some hard starting.
NEDJ the next leanest on the straight diameter, or NECx needles are available as half clips.
I have found the needle straight diameter to have a pretty big influence over the burble just off idle. If I leaned out the pilot enough to clean up the off idle stutter I'd get a racing idle and some hard starting.
NEDJ the next leanest on the straight diameter, or NECx needles are available as half clips.
Skid, I'm riding in the same exact conditions as you are. I probably live less than 100 miles from you. I've been running my bike, 11' 250, with a 42 pilot still, the needle is still in the #3 slot, but I've gone up to a 175 main, and set the AS @1.5 out. Your not going to hurt the bike,seize it, on the pilot. The only thing I plan on doing is raising the needle to the 4th clip when the temps get into the lower 40's. As far as the bike feeling lean or going flat on the topend, I think that's just how these bikes run. It's the only thing I'm not really impressed with. I have a tendency to ride the bike like a 125 when I put the 50 tooth sprocket on it, and if there was something that was going to happen to the engine while I was on the main jet it would have, but I couldn't even get the bike to boil a drop of water out of it. IMO the jetting with the NEDW neddle is very flexable. I've had no problems using that needle from temp in the 40's-90's with only minor changes.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Not sure I really agree. Well I do. The Gnarly is known to sacrifice some top end. I'm running the stock pipe though and don't find the top end to have too much over rev.
Don't get me wrong it'll rip along up top but it does seem to sign off a bit or more so if happier to click the next gear. This is on a 300 compared to the 250's though. I'd imagine they'd have a bit more over rev than the 300.
I also agree with MJC. I have ran mine with a 40P and NEDW#1 172 and while it did begin to feel a bit too lean when being worked hard it never spat any coolant or pinging.
You just think your Gnarlized 300 is fast up top, the Doma was good for about 5 more HP. Think old time CR500 fast, well not quite, but the first ride with the Doma was real eye opener. You get used to shifting at a certain RPM range and the Doma just blew right thru where I used to shift carrying the front wheel. Did lose the clean grunt off the bottom though.
skid jackson
New member
other than the 42 we are pretty much running the same set up ... got a 50 on the back too. When I was messing with it sunday my bud said ... that don't sound right ... it sounds like a 125. I sort of agreed and always figured when a 250 2t sounds like a 125 your on the lean side. But it felt pretty good so I went with it. you north south east or west of me?? I'm tempted to pop the 42 in but it seems late in the season for that. might ride the enduro this sunday ... gonna be a cold start to that one
I'm about 5 miles west of Dirt World Cycle. For the temps that we had today, 30's, I would have used a 45, but honestly I'm just about done for the season. I may do a trail rider or two and one more race at the end of Nov, but I'm not really a cold weather rider.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
There is a definite change in exhaust note from one clip to the next and with each one leaner it is more of a higher pitched and snappy sound. Richen it up and it will sound duller. The thing to note here is that it felt good. Leaner will continue to feel better and better until you reach a point where it feels like it lacks it balls. Like it'll rev but it won't have strength behind it. Go leaner again and you'll start to experience surging, pinging, and boiling over. Keep pushing it and you'll more than likely seize it up.
From my experience the edge of being too lean is when the bike feels really nice when you take off but after 10minutes of giving it the berries it starts to feel a bit flat. Go half a clip or a clip richer and you're on the moneys! If you want it to be more torquey and tractor like (a little more forgiving) go another clip richer, but this will come at the expense of using a bit more fuel.
They engine is extremely tunable depending on what characteristics you are looking for.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
I have found the holy grail for my bike after a whole year of continually trying every needle and setup I can get my hands on.
Settled on 40P AS2 NEDJ#2 172. Its err very nice! I had tried NECJ#3 which was too rich. Blubbed some but generally just not crisp enough. You could hear it in the tone of the exhaust.
With NEDJ#2 quite clean and lean off the bottom end. Will lug around in 2nd very smoothly and pop the front up over logs and roots with ease. It then richens up into a nice meaty mid range and keeps pulling all the way into the top.
Settled on 40P AS2 NEDJ#2 172. Its err very nice! I had tried NECJ#3 which was too rich. Blubbed some but generally just not crisp enough. You could hear it in the tone of the exhaust.
With NEDJ#2 quite clean and lean off the bottom end. Will lug around in 2nd very smoothly and pop the front up over logs and roots with ease. It then richens up into a nice meaty mid range and keeps pulling all the way into the top.
firffighter
New member
Great. Now I gotta get another needle!
Great work Jakobi
Great work Jakobi
Jakobi
Super Moderator
You don't really need another needle. If you're happy with the NEDW I'd just stick with that. I had a burble just as I'd open the throttle with the W. I'd say between 1/8 and 1/4 throttle which I could clear up by lifting the needle but then I fell a bit lean in the mid (around 1/2 throttle). I could live with it if I only rode open 3rd gear and up trails but found it a bit annoying at the smaller openings in the tight stuff. The J diameter has cleaned this up for me.
Like MJC said in the jetting thread. NEDH for 200's, NEDW for 250, NEDJ for 300.
I could probably get away with dropping the main back to a 170 again but will leave it as is for the moment. Very pleased!
Like MJC said in the jetting thread. NEDH for 200's, NEDW for 250, NEDJ for 300.
I could probably get away with dropping the main back to a 170 again but will leave it as is for the moment. Very pleased!
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Hey Jake,
Just buy a normal 12 and work all this out again for me will ya.
My 07 is now officially up for sale.
I have cancelled my Wildwood entry to get the bike ready for sale.
Cheers Mark
Mark! I think the new 300 still uses the 38mm carb same same same so jetting shouldn't be too far off. I'm thinking maybe you should have a go with the 2012 first and once you have it sussed I'll consider selling the Euro
wence
Bronze Level Site Supporter
Yeh , I bet you do.
Your wish will probably come true mate as I will be buying shortly.
I know that if there were any probs John from Solo will help us out.
The only worry I have still is really that new filter design?
I guess we'll see...
I will probably be talking to you a lot more when I start jetting the new one as I have deliberately run the 07 on the slightly rich side to be safe on long transport sections.
Cheers Mark
Your wish will probably come true mate as I will be buying shortly.
I know that if there were any probs John from Solo will help us out.
The only worry I have still is really that new filter design?
I guess we'll see...
I will probably be talking to you a lot more when I start jetting the new one as I have deliberately run the 07 on the slightly rich side to be safe on long transport sections.
Cheers Mark
