The Lectron - Review (vs SmartCarb)

[Jakobi]

Sorry about the poor video footage. Lense had fogged up severly. Put 6 minutes of footage up following a mate and just playing around getting a feel for the carb. Gives some idea of how well it luggs down, and how well it explodes into the top end when its needed. Theres a small creek where I loft the front in second gear towards the end (bottom of the hill) where you can kinda get a feel for where it just feels a bit flat. Maybe I'm just expecting too much from the bottom of the 250

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkLCmCL36JM

 

[n_green]

That footage is woeful! haha. I've never had that happen to me, ione of the benefits of not riding in 200% humidity I guess

Bike sounds good to me, nice and crisp. Obviously hard to pick up on the hole, I didn't really hear/see it.

How does the Lectron go in terms of fuel economy now, had a chance to really test it?

 

[Jakobi]

Tell me about it. Thats about as well as I can ever see out my goggles too! Know anything that works to help reduce fog?

Turn the volume up and you'll hear the engine working better (if you can hear it over the CRFX.

Fuel consumption - That was a 70km ride mixed with that kind of trail, more open and flowing hilly terrain and a good load of technical single trail. The bikes been washed and thats it. When I fill her up on Monday I'll tell you how many litres she takes. I imagine it'll be between 6 and 7L

 

[n_green]

Tell me about it. Thats about as well as I can ever see out my goggles too! Know anything that works to help reduce fog?

Turn the volume up and you'll hear the engine working better (if you can hear it over the CRFX.

Fuel consumption - That was a 70km ride mixed with that kind of trail, more open and flowing hilly terrain and a good load of technical single trail. The bikes been washed and thats it. When I fill her up on Monday I'll tell you how many litres she takes. I imagine it'll be between 6 and 7L

That was the other part of it, that bloody noisy 4 stroke ruined the sound

Re fog, no idea, I rarely get it unless its raining and I'm steaming up myself, since I've had my twin lens goggles and the go pro I haven't ridden in that type of weather, but winter is coming so I'm sure I'll find out soon.

Thanks again for the updates, I'm following this with interest. I didn't pre-order the Smartcarb as money was a bit tight just before Xmas, but now I have it here waiting, and I think I'll continue waiting for your comparison before I decide what I'll buy.

 

[Jakobi]

Just a quick update. I had a chance to check the fuel. I started last ride with a full tank and covered a mixed 70kms. Probably about 10kms of transporting on the hwy. A decent chunk of flowly trail, and some technical goat tracks thrown in as well. Pretty much everything I would typically experience in a half days ride. Even some time with the bike spent on its side. The pace was pretty casual. Conditions were perfect (humid, but damp). The fuel level is exactly at the 3L marking on the tank. I'm not going to measure with anymore accuracy then that at the moment.

So lets estimate 6.5L over 70kms = 10.7km/l. Very much on par with the jetting in the AS2 as well. Would give a projected 100km range on a full tank, plus I always carry another litre in the backpack. Acceptable for me. Converted for the US. Approx 25.2 miles per gallon.

The spark plug looks pretty good. Nice colour. A bit wet but it always is as I run the bike on the stand after I wash it. I'm going to go another 1/4 turn richer which will introduce a bit more burble off idle but hopefully get me the torque and punch increase I'm after below 1/4 throttle. Hope it doesn't cost economy too much. I'll ride it like that tomorrow and then see how I feel before picking up the other metering rod and trying that.

Further note - Only a little smoke coming from the exhaust after running single track. No spooging or dripping and same old oily ring at the end of the exhaust. Evidence of lubrication coming from the PV drainage. All good!

 

[Jakobi]

Just for my own referrence. Needle now set at 50.20mm. Some light riding around the yard has it feeling more like my previous Keihin setup with a bit more punch and burble off idle, improved torque, and some knacking occassionaly when chopping the throttle. Definitely don't want to go any richer at idle than this.

Gopro on charge. Should have the next update tomorrow night. Happy Easter everyone!

 

[Jakobi]

You are bang on with not picking up extra fuel under load as i had the carb jetted spot on clean and the more i pushed my bike the more i got a hanging idle and less torque in a higher gear under load.I've gone a 1/4 turn richer as i like to have the off idle torque there when i need/want it at the expense of some rich symptoms.

Seems we are the opposite here! I can't deal with 4 stroking every time I open the throttle. I can deal with some 4 stroking at light throttle like when coasting or trailing throttle down hill.

Today I found that with the needle at 50.20mm the bike would burble in every gear, every time I'd open the throttle. The bike would also clearly begin to load up and you'd have to clear it out after every time you restart it. It'd blow more smoke than Im used to as well. I found that with this setting the bike had a very nice meaty mid range and a stellar top end.

Going a 1/4 turn leaner the idle was near perfect. Knackering in the higher gears and some light burbling in the lower, except it comes at the expense of some mid range. The engine feels like its more willing to rev, but it comes at the expense of needing a bit more clutch here and there to keep it up in the meat of its power. I could learn to ride this easier than dealing with the constant burbling.

I changed back and forwards between these settings about 4 times today. Each time reflecting on the last. There were a few inconsistancies where the bike wouldn't quite feel exactly the same as last time. Maybe even less than an 1/8th of a turn makes a noticable difference. I'll pull the slide tomorrow after I wash the bike and measure where its at now.

I also experienced something strange on the transport section home (5km of tar) at one point I opened it up and it felt like it had nothing much to give. This is after it had been running stellar. Not sure whats going on here. I also noticed as the day went on the bike wasn't happy to idle. I could open the slide enough to get a decent idle but it would then hang a bit. Very noticable effect on slide height off idle as well. I would say it very much could be used like an air screw adjustment. I may experiment with the 50.20 setting and slide open further.

Other small things I picked up. I once noticed some water in the clear bowl after last ride. All good and well.. That happens.. But I couldn't see a drain plug. Granted I didn't look very hard as it was late, but is there an easy way to drain the carb? I also noticed that there has been some water entering the carb via the sleeve at the top where the throttle cable seats. Not sure how to work around this? I'll see if I can get a small o-ring to fit on for now. looks like it may have happened last ride some time as it appears there was some tarnishing happening on the brass sleeve of the carb. Either way dirty water coming in isn't a good thing. I've got 7 more engine hours to put towards this before the engine comes out for a rebuild.

What else needs to be tested? I'll check my reeds at that point but they were good before installing this carb and never had any idle issues.

If I can get some videos editted up I'll try and post.

 

[Fred1956]

Has anyone tried different needle tapers? It seems you are stumped against one area vs another and I would think they make different needle tapers for different RPM area adjustments....I can't imagine it's a 'one needle fits everything' situation

 

[Jakobi]

I'm sure I read that they are working with Kelly at motosportz to cut some custom profiles for the Huskys so big kudos to Lectron. I currently have the 3-1XL installed, and should have a 3-2XL at the post office. After yesterdays ride I'm not certain that the richer rod will be what I'm looking for though. My understanding is that it will make it richer AT and off idle. What I'm looking for is a way to make it leaner at idle (reduce the burble and improve the idle), but not neccessarily off idle. Best way I can describe it is that its too rich below 1/8th throttle. Cleaning this up leaves me too lean at 1/4 throttle which cuts torque and introduces the hanging idle. I guess I just spent so much time working with needle diameters, pilots, and airscrews that I now miss having the adjustability of all those variables. I have no doubt that Lectron could produce a metering rod that does all of this.

Thanks for the idea about the tape. Thats what I was thinking last night myself. Also good news that they're making an insert for the Motion pro captive cables.

For anyone interested here is a link to their tuning guide. http://www.lectronfuelsystems.com/docs/Tuning_Instr.pdf

 

[Jakobi]

I've got Kevins email so will speak to him about it a bit myself. I'm not looking at getting any metering rods cut or the like as I'll be handing the carb back to TSP in the next few weeks. Perhaps Dave might look at having some custom rods cut in the future. I'm sure with a bit of work on the Dyno and a few graphs he could very easily have the perfect rod machined up to meet each indivual bike and in this case the results would be stellar. Would the effort be worth the price tag? Who knows.

Finished washing the bike and I'll get around to pulling the slide and taking a measurement of where the rod is now. It ran pretty good this way even if lacking a bit of grunt around 1/4 throttle. It matched my riding style well.

http://youtu.be/z9HXRGHM4KQ

Also after some adjusting on the idle screw it seems to be idling well again although. Will have to investigate this some more.

 

[n_green]

Sounded good in that video.

 

[Jakobi]

Its got me scratching my head. I'm getting inconsistant results here. It seemed to kind of idle alright today after I washed it. I then pulled the slide again and checked everything out. There was evidence of some dirty water making its way through the top where the cable enters the slide. I have used some electrical tape to fix up the sleeve so hopefully no more. I've also managed to get some water into the float bowl.

How do you drain this sucker? I undid both clamps and rolled the carb with the cap off away from me until it was right over and all the fuel drained out. Looks like the water didn't though as its still there. I'm not interested in swinging the subframe up just to drain some water from the bowl. This might not be an issue for some people, but up here in the tropics its not unusual to have at least one bike take a swim most rides. Thats another thing. I think the overflows for this carb need to be longer. At current they seem to dribble 2T fuel all over the rear of engine and swingarm pivot. If I was living with this carb I'd definitely extend them to run back down like a Keihin.

After this I installed a clean (previously oiled) air filter and fired her up. The idle wasn't right and appeared to hang around 2000rpm. Sometimes if I'd blip it would drop back to 900rpm for a sec and then stall. I can find the point where the idle screw either idles nice and low for a few secs and stalls, or where it seems to hang up high. A quick light ride and it felt flat as well but it may have just been the cold engine. Either way I went back a 1/4 turn richer and tried again and it seems to be running better. Still a bit on/off on the idle adjustment and not perfect. Then again my engine has always played these games and been very particular about its idle, usually taking just the right turn on the airscrew in conjunction with the slide height.

So I double checked the slide height and idle adjustment when I had the airfilter off too. Slide height seems alright. Nice and low. I very much doubt this is the cause of the racing idle. The slide itself may be playing some part. You can see where its being worn from slamming back against the stop. Seems a bit premature? I've always taken care to lift the slide (open the throttle) while making adjustments from day one. We all know what happens to the plastic adjustment screws on the PWKs if you don't.

Ohh also. Picked up the other needle from the PO today. Haven't installed it yet and not sure I'll get the chance to unless if I go out on a cheeky tuning adventure.

Slide height through carb boot

Slide wearing

Any thoughts Dave?

 

[Jakobi]

Ohh yeah. Last ride at lunch I had 70km on the clock at lunch. Took 5L to fill. That was swapping back and forwards between the 2 settings. It was a very casual pace most the day.

 

[singletracker]

I've reported that I haven't had the same issues with the idle that you guys have, but I did experience a hanging idle on the last ride. The only difference is that prior to the ride I richened the powerjet a 1/4 of a turn just for the sake of experimenting. It was also warmer than the previous ride, but about the same as the ride prior to that and it was fine for both of those rides. I wouldn't think the powerjet would effect it, but maybe it does.

 

[singletracker]

BTW, my slide has the same wear from the idle screw.

 

[Jakobi]

Thanks ST. I should note that my bike has always been a bit sensitive to idle settings so I'm not overly surprised by my findings. I definitely don't see it as a fault of the carb and it may just need some finer tuning. The PWK was sensitive and I could always feel a difference between a dirty air filter and a clean one too. An eighth of a turn on the AS here and there was all it really needed.

The hours are also stretching out on the top end now to where I otherwise would have changed it. I'm not 100% certain what they're up to but was 100hrs when I put the Lectron in and I've put around 280kms on the bike since. Estimate around 9-10hrs probably. The reeds have been replaced once in the 260hrs on the bottom end, but were inspected and in order within the last 50hrs. Whether thats changed or not I'm not sure and won't know until next time I pull the cage, which will be soon. No amount of tinkering will improve a mechanical issue so thats something else to take into consideration.

I'm not sure if I've stated it or not either, but the thread title which indicates this vs that. I won't so much be comparing the carbs and saying which is better than the other. I'm just trying to identify what works well and what doesn't. So far the thread might seem like I'm being a bit harsh on the Lectron, but really I'm just working through my thoughts in writing. So far I have to say I'm really impressed by the overall performance and ease of use. The fuel consumption and efficiency observed has been as good as and looking to be an improvement over my previous (which I considered great). I very much doubt that anyone who bought one would be disappointed. I'd recommend a Lectron as a better choice than a JD jet kit, and much easier to dial in.

 

[dmcca]

Ok, first of all sorry for not having as much input into this thread as id hoped... had a few family issues which have taken up most of my time recently and havent been very focussed on work.

Just to clarify a few issues that have been brought up so far...

Slide wear...the slide wear is completely normal and nothing to worry about. It occurs in the first few runs as the idle screw seats into the side of the slide and creates a 'ding' in the slide. Absolutely nothing to worry about and wont cause issues in the future.

Cable fitting... In the next order of carbs Im receiving from Kevin there will be a few different cables and cable adjusters to try so I will easily be able to find a combination that works well, seals properly and has the correct length of free play.

Draining the float... There is less need to access the float on this carb as there are no jets hidden in there, however if you need to drain it for cleaning or removing water the easiest option is to tilt the carb to one side and loosen two of the float retaining screws and it will drain easily.

Idle -> 1/4 throttle... I have been doing loads of testing on my 2007 Honda CR250 and have experienced the same issue with the 1/4 turn adjustment of the needle not being quite perfect... idle to 1/4 throttle goes from slightly lean to slightly rich in 1/4 turn using the 3-1 needle. Ive read plenty of other reviews by riders who have not had this as an issue but in my case a touch more adjustability in jetting just off idle would make the Lectron virtually perfect.
Interestingly my best setting so far is EXACTLY the same as Jakes at 50.25mm needle length and the powerjet 3/4 turn out... this gives incredible mid range and top end but it is very slightly rich at idle and just above. Going 1/4 turn leaner gives a slightly hanging idle when hot and a little less power from 1/4 to 1/2. This is me being VERY picky about an otherwise brilliant jetting setup, but if theres a practical way to improve it I will find it... Three options im looking into are adding an adjustable air screw of the correct orifice size to add a little extra air into the mix until just above idle but not impact higher up significantly. The second option is to modify the needle retainer (or make a custom one) to allow finer tuning than 1/4 turn. The third option is working with Kevin at Lectron to create a new needle... something equivalent to a 3-0.75 if that makes sense.

I think that covers most of the main concerns that seem to have been highlighted so far, Ill be happy to sort through anything else that comes up in the future as best I can and Kevin has also been keeping an eye on this thread with interest... he is very keen to assist and is extremely helpful with suggestions and advice, a real pleasure to work with someone who stands behind their product and offers such great service.

I might be biased but my personal experience with the Lectron carb has been brilliant and I won't be going back to mikuni or keihin... although like Jake I have searched back and forward for the perfect setting with the Lectron, i feel for 90% of riders out there it would be a set and forget bolt on option that would pretty much immediately give you the best jetting you had ever felt. The other 10% like me who love to tinker will continue to tinker regardless of whether or not our jetting is perfect

 

[Jakobi]

Ok, first of all sorry for not having as much input into this thread as id hoped... had a few family issues which have taken up most of my time recently and havent been very focussed on work.

Just to clarify a few issues that have been brought up so far...

Slide wear...the slide wear is completely normal and nothing to worry about. It occurs in the first few runs as the idle screw seats into the side of the slide and creates a 'ding' in the slide. Absolutely nothing to worry about and wont cause issues in the future.

Cable fitting... In the next order of carbs Im receiving from Kevin there will be a few different cables and cable adjusters to try so I will easily be able to find a combination that works well, seals properly and has the correct length of free play.

Draining the float... There is less need to access the float on this carb as there are no jets hidden in there, however if you need to drain it for cleaning or removing water the easiest option is to tilt the carb to one side and loosen two of the float retaining screws and it will drain easily.

Idle -> 1/4 throttle... I have been doing loads of testing on my 2007 Honda CR250 and have experienced the same issue with the 1/4 turn adjustment of the needle not being quite perfect... idle to 1/4 throttle goes from slightly lean to slightly rich in 1/4 turn using the 3-1 needle. Ive read plenty of other reviews by riders who have not had this as an issue but in my case a touch more adjustability in jetting just off idle would make the Lectron virtually perfect.
Interestingly my best setting so far is EXACTLY the same as Jakes at 50.25mm needle length and the powerjet 3/4 turn out... this gives incredible mid range and top end but it is very slightly rich at idle and just above. Going 1/4 turn leaner gives a slightly hanging idle when hot and a little less power from 1/4 to 1/2. This is me being VERY picky about an otherwise brilliant jetting setup, but if theres a practical way to improve it I will find it... Three options im looking into are adding an adjustable air screw of the correct orifice size to add a little extra air into the mix until just above idle but not impact higher up significantly. The second option is to modify the needle retainer (or make a custom one) to allow finer tuning than 1/4 turn. The third option is working with Kevin at Lectron to create a new needle... something equivalent to a 3-0.75 if that makes sense.

I think that covers most of the main concerns that seem to have been highlighted so far, Ill be happy to sort through anything else that comes up in the future as best I can and Kevin has also been keeping an eye on this thread with interest... he is very keen to assist and is extremely helpful with suggestions and advice, a real pleasure to work with someone who stands behind their product and offers such great service.

I might be biased but my personal experience with the Lectron carb has been brilliant and I won't be going back to mikuni or keihin... although like Jake I have searched back and forward for the perfect setting with the Lectron, i feel for 90% of riders out there it would be a set and forget bolt on option that would pretty much immediately give you the best jetting you had ever felt. The other 10% like me who love to tinker will continue to tinker regardless of whether or not our jetting is perfect

I think we're both on the same page here Dave. Everything you have said rings true with my findings.

I'd personally like to see an Air Screw implemented into the design. I see this as the win as it would give the ability to adjust the idle and off idle response independently, but would still retain the pro's of having no jets or brass to change. The biggest benefit to this would be that it gives you an external point of adjustment. While both other options will give you a finer range of tuning they still require the slide to be removed to make a change. Probably not such an issue for someone like me or you, but for the average tinkerer its just easier.

Like we discussed this morning, I'd be happy to put in some time testing for you after you make some adjustments Dave. I'd be happy enough to put some time on one for you while you take hold of the smart carb to do some testing of your own (one it arrives). In the mean time I need to look at pulling the engine out of my bike.

 

[Jakobi]

Just another follow up.

I've totally rebuilt the engine bottom to top and installed the Lectron again. The bike fired back up quite easily and I have not felt the need to adjust the rod height again since. I need to confirm where it is, but I think it was at the richer of the two settings I had been playing with. I get a bit more burble off the bottom than I'd like still but it clears up quickly and lugs down really well. The power delivery is super smooth and the power continues to build as it comes onto the pipe which is very smooth and just a change in tone followed by crisper and more responsive pull. Its doesn't really need any clutching to smooth it out or control an abusive hit. I've been trying not to hold it WOT as I'm still breaking the engine in, but seems to pull even better up top too.

Overall I think if a 1/8th adjustment was available I'd be right where I need to be and it would be as close to perfect as any other carb thats well dialled in.

Smart Carb will be shipping this week, so I'll give the Lectron another decent ride or two and then drop the oil, double check everything under the pri case, and install the Smart Carb.

Suspension work will happen at the same time with the subframe flipped and I'll also go back through all the cable routing and hopefully end up with a nice fitting motionpro T3 cable again.

 

[Jakobi]

More riding today and I can't help but to tinker. I went 1/4 turn leaner again and it cleans up the bottom end beautifully but just falls a bit flatter in the mid range. I definitely think a quarter turn is taking me past where I need to be. I prefer it leaner, crisper, and not burbling off the bottom so will continue to ride it like this for a bit.