18's sure look to have the right parts.
- Thread starter hamilton
- Start date
swazi_matt
Active member
a nice positive review
http://www.dirtrider.com/2018-gas-g...061001042&spReportId=MTA2MTAwMTA0MgS2#page-10
http://www.dirtrider.com/2018-gas-g...061001042&spReportId=MTA2MTAwMTA0MgS2#page-10
CDN Rick
Silver Level Site Supporter
Very cool! And from KTMRider Magazine. Ooops. I mean Dirtrider Magazine even!
arminhammer
New member
All credibility of this mag goes out the window when they say the spring should be good for between 100lbs and 250lbs.
CDN Rick
Silver Level Site Supporter
HAHAHA!!! I don't disagree. That would be the most incredible rear shock ever. Or have some magical progressive spring rate.
Besides. You have to reset everything in the rear end after 10 hours anyways.
mtnmanseth
New member
I honestly don't mean to be a troll here, as I love GasGas and was sincerely hoping to be among the first to buy a 2018. Really. But, I am equally discouraged by the significant price increase (to $9300 USD), which Beta didn't do for their 2018s based on today's press release showing many upgrades/redesigns...
10.4 pounds lighter
All New clutch
New cylinder
Crankshaft
New connecting rod
New power valve timing
Elimination of the kick-start
New gear change system
New air filter box
Rounded piston and new cylinder head profile
New Chassis
Lithium battery
Air filter box and rear subframe
Fork with a new slider
New skid plate
New muffler heat shield
Takasago Excel rims
Available at Beta USA dealers beginning in August.
No Price Increase for 2018!
2018 MSRP:
250 RR $8499.00
300 RR $8499.00
Thus, 2018 GasGas bikes will be priced right between Beta and KTM/Husqvarna bikes. This would be fair if there were a year or two of history, reliability records, and positive peer/racer (not magazine) reviews of the 2018 GG bikes, then maybe I could justify spending more for a GG. I'm torn, as I'm on a strict budget and the $ I'd save by buying a different red brand would cover all the requisite armor/upgrades (skid plate, shark fin, handguards, rejetting, mousse, suspension tuning, etc). Hoping not to get flamed for this, but I am very much on the fence about what bike to buy in the next few months. Is everyone's general consensus that full KYB suspension is (by itself) worth an extra $800? Is the value there?
CDN Rick
Silver Level Site Supporter
Those are fair and great questions. Since I haven't ridden the '18 GG and '18 Beta back to back its really hard to answer without bias. But I'll try.
1st. From all my conversations and my own experience everyone I know who has ridden the older Beta's and Gassers back to back has preferred the gasser. Not to say Beta doesn't make a good bike. I've just always found that they don't handle as well. And being Italian they are known to have a lot of quirks with electrical issues. I see you own a Beta so I can't speak to your experience. Thats just what I've noticed talking with friends and local racers.
2nd. I recommend that you don't look at GasGas as a stand-alone entity. Look at them instead as Torrot/GasGas. Because that is who they are. While its true that GasGas has recently had struggles, Torrot is a solid company with a solid portfolio of success. I expect no less from them with GasGas. I'll be buying a gasser because of Torrot. Because all my research leads me to believe in Torrot.
3rd. Kickstarter. Say goodbye to holeshots in XC racing unless that thing just so happens to be bang on every single time. That along with having to drag my bike to the top of a hill every time I need to start it if my battery just so happens to fail in the bush would have me worried. I'd be ordering the optional kickstarter with it. Which really closes the gap on the price difference. Considering the kit retails for $400 on the XTrainer I'd imagine the price will be similar on the 300. Meaning the price difference is only $400. Not $800.
4th. KYB suspension is good. Like really good. Yamaha's SSS system has been drooled over for a long time by everyone. And with it being one of the most popular brands in offroad racing there are tuners everywhere with parts and know-how to get you dialed in.
5th. Lithium battery. They are great. And I will be running one on my gasser when I get around to putting the E-start back on. But the problem with them is that they don't like cold. Up here in the great white north I will need to be able to kickstart it before the battery will operate properly. Research Lithium battery's and you'll understand what I'm getting at.
I guess it comes down to who you believe in. I'm continually impressed with the passion that GasGas North America puts into the brand. Back that up with the passion of the factory and HQ in Spain and KYB suspension. I'll be spending the extra few $$ for a Gasser. Kickstarter included.
Stoby
Bronze Level Site Supporter
my point
I think they're going to scare consumers away . When Gasser fans don't want to spend an extra $800 what's the GP gonna think. Buy an oft maligned bike with spotty history for more than the proven competition? I am still not sure what I'm going to buy this summer . It should've and could've been a slam dunk easy $8500 decision but now it requires some though on my part . That $800 extra buys the armor and tires a new bike needs. Also I've read the gasser isn't getting the SSS fork ???? Is that legal mumbo jumbo or is it getting a lesser fork?
I am on the fence and I shouldn't be.
Stoby
I think they're going to scare consumers away . When Gasser fans don't want to spend an extra $800 what's the GP gonna think. Buy an oft maligned bike with spotty history for more than the proven competition? I am still not sure what I'm going to buy this summer . It should've and could've been a slam dunk easy $8500 decision but now it requires some though on my part . That $800 extra buys the armor and tires a new bike needs. Also I've read the gasser isn't getting the SSS fork ???? Is that legal mumbo jumbo or is it getting a lesser fork?
I am on the fence and I shouldn't be.
Stoby
hadfield4wd
New member
SSS is Yamaha branded valving. Its no different than what is available through kyb. Tuner can easily duplicate.
Its nothing more than a fantastic marketing job by yamaha.
And speaking of on the fence my best friend in NY is a beta dealer and I can get a great deal, and I'm still considering GG. Although I'm not ready to buy yet so its mute at this point. I keep pushing him to be a GG dealer
Its nothing more than a fantastic marketing job by yamaha.
And speaking of on the fence my best friend in NY is a beta dealer and I can get a great deal, and I'm still considering GG. Although I'm not ready to buy yet so its mute at this point. I keep pushing him to be a GG dealer
arminhammer
New member
Holeshots you say. As much as I love having a kicker on my Beta I never once used it at a XC. If you need a better start than this I don't know what to tell you. The KYB shock is no better than the Sachs and I have lots of both apart. The KYB forks are no question going to be better out of the box than the Sachs.
If you are into knowing a company before you buy, I think the history of Beta will surprise you. I have an 11 Gasser also and it's a great bike but not better than the Beta. The 18 looks great and I'm sure it's going to be excellent but it has to stack up against some pretty good competition.
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Jakobi
Super Moderator
The price of the Gassers was one of their biggest selling points! I can see how it causes concern having to pay more.. but the company also came from some financial hardship. Obviously the old model was wrong in many ways.
How well can you negotiate? My experience has shown room to move from RRP in most cases with this brand, but the same could be said with Beta when I enquired to how cheap I could get one too.
Some dealers will throw in extras, or exchange parts as their is often more mark up/profit margin on them. You may be able to get a few essentials and tyres of your choice added in the deal for much less than RRP on those items alone.
The main issue with the GG is depreciation. No one wants to pay more up front, cause you've got diddley squat chance of seeing it back when it's time to move it. Other brands are more in demand, with a greater used market to push prices up and keep costs down. It'll take years for this to happen with Gas Gas. This is probably the biggest challenge.
$800 for the suspension alone is a score. The KYB AOS/SSS fork has a proven track record and ample information available regarding setup. They are easy to work on, and easy to find spares.. and if compared to the 48mm Marzocchis which keep eating themselves... well you'll pay more for a replacement cart than you will for a full set of KYBS.
I think given my experience over the years, I'd buy on chassis and suspension above all else. A new chassis makes it a hard call. The suspension is proven. The Sachs are harder to source parts and knowledge, and if you want a Beta with the closed carts up front you'll be forking out extra for the race model anyway. Apples to apples. Other brands you'll need to throw $800 at them just to get the stock suspension to work.
How well can you negotiate? My experience has shown room to move from RRP in most cases with this brand, but the same could be said with Beta when I enquired to how cheap I could get one too.
Some dealers will throw in extras, or exchange parts as their is often more mark up/profit margin on them. You may be able to get a few essentials and tyres of your choice added in the deal for much less than RRP on those items alone.
The main issue with the GG is depreciation. No one wants to pay more up front, cause you've got diddley squat chance of seeing it back when it's time to move it. Other brands are more in demand, with a greater used market to push prices up and keep costs down. It'll take years for this to happen with Gas Gas. This is probably the biggest challenge.
$800 for the suspension alone is a score. The KYB AOS/SSS fork has a proven track record and ample information available regarding setup. They are easy to work on, and easy to find spares.. and if compared to the 48mm Marzocchis which keep eating themselves... well you'll pay more for a replacement cart than you will for a full set of KYBS.
I think given my experience over the years, I'd buy on chassis and suspension above all else. A new chassis makes it a hard call. The suspension is proven. The Sachs are harder to source parts and knowledge, and if you want a Beta with the closed carts up front you'll be forking out extra for the race model anyway. Apples to apples. Other brands you'll need to throw $800 at them just to get the stock suspension to work.
Those are some very good points.
2018 Betas $8499.00
2018 Beta 250 and 300 are $8499.00.
http://www.cyclenews.com/2017/06/article/2018-beta-250300-rr-two-strokes-first-look/
2018 Beta 250 and 300 are $8499.00.
http://www.cyclenews.com/2017/06/article/2018-beta-250300-rr-two-strokes-first-look/
Jacob 'Berg
Member
Sorry, my mistake. Didn't know you wanted an 18 EC250, so I put you down for one. When they arrive, what dealer shall I send it to?
Rod, I read somewhere that the 250 will only be available in the XC trim in the U.S., is that correct?
SpirosZ1000
Member
Not the factory versions and the simple ones are not to be compared with the Gassers in my opinion.
I know Beta makes really good bikes and has grown it's share on the market really well but it lacks reliability and in some things seems cheaper (plastic and stickers for example).
I really like the durability of my Gassers both the old one and the current and because many of the riders whom I ride with have Beta's I 've seen this on my own.Because I practice skills and ride a lot in the last one and half year I have to say that my plastics are still in place and my stickers also despite some of them are halfway gone. A close buddy of mine with a factory 350 2016 model fell and broke a front fender like it was nothing. The same guy after a ride we had lost his rear number plate sticker by the washing machine.
Another one with a brand new 250 2t 2017 model had problems with the oil injection and the instrument from the begging.
What I try to say is that they are really great bikes but I still prefer my Gasser.
As for pricing here in Greece the new model EC 300 racing is at 9000 euros
while Beta's 2017 is at 8650 300rr and 9400 300rr factory and the same pricing is anticipated for the 2018 models plus the added price if you want the kickstart package.
Mark Berg - CPD
Site Sponsor
Again.....
Some people are still comparing unfairly.
The 2017 Beta Race Version 300 retailed for $8899 (they haven't stated 18 price for race version). If you are fortunate to have taken a test ride at our event you received a VIP ticket for $275 off any selection of a GG at your local dealer (first 4 test events, we are sending these VIP tickets in mail). So now your new EC300 WITH KYB suspension is $9024 against the "race version 2017 price of $8899. Do we seem far off now?
If you want to continue to compare their entry level against our latest EC or XC, then compare suspension, brake components, clutch components, and our engines that are solid.
We have 3 guys working very hard on things in the field. Rod, Jubal, Geoff are all traveling, campaigning and talking to everyone that stops by about the new GasGas company. Plus a test ride tour to get as many butts on bikes as possible! I was in PA this weekend and all ride comments were positive, price point didn't seem an issue (at least to my face) and a tons of people stopping by looking like they had never seen a GasGas. Is there a rep in your area to talk directly to about the other product like we are?
We have invested a lot of money in our infrastructure and way more to come, we are not going to cheapen our product now that it is on a very good level with the competition. For our future, and for our dealers future as well!
We can ask the factory to build an entry level inexpensive bike for next year, with lower quality braking components, suspension, plastics, etc, just like we have on the Contact Trials bike. Then you can compare the same product levels.
If still you chose another product? Congrats for you and I hope you enjoy it, plus get your kids to like dirt bikes because from what I see, there isn't much of a dirt bike future left in about 30 years or less. We are all getting old...or at least I am!
Some people are still comparing unfairly.
The 2017 Beta Race Version 300 retailed for $8899 (they haven't stated 18 price for race version). If you are fortunate to have taken a test ride at our event you received a VIP ticket for $275 off any selection of a GG at your local dealer (first 4 test events, we are sending these VIP tickets in mail). So now your new EC300 WITH KYB suspension is $9024 against the "race version 2017 price of $8899. Do we seem far off now?
If you want to continue to compare their entry level against our latest EC or XC, then compare suspension, brake components, clutch components, and our engines that are solid.
We have 3 guys working very hard on things in the field. Rod, Jubal, Geoff are all traveling, campaigning and talking to everyone that stops by about the new GasGas company. Plus a test ride tour to get as many butts on bikes as possible! I was in PA this weekend and all ride comments were positive, price point didn't seem an issue (at least to my face) and a tons of people stopping by looking like they had never seen a GasGas. Is there a rep in your area to talk directly to about the other product like we are?
We have invested a lot of money in our infrastructure and way more to come, we are not going to cheapen our product now that it is on a very good level with the competition. For our future, and for our dealers future as well!
We can ask the factory to build an entry level inexpensive bike for next year, with lower quality braking components, suspension, plastics, etc, just like we have on the Contact Trials bike. Then you can compare the same product levels.
If still you chose another product? Congrats for you and I hope you enjoy it, plus get your kids to like dirt bikes because from what I see, there isn't much of a dirt bike future left in about 30 years or less. We are all getting old...or at least I am!
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Stoby
Bronze Level Site Supporter
Unfair
How about discounts for gasgas forum guys = long time enthusiasts esp. where there are no test rides available. I'd of been super psyched to be able to test one. As i'm sure others would be also . I just think they are pricing themselves out of contention for non believers. KYB suspension comes standard on $7000 yamahas . It just reminds me of gasgas pre torrot , all over again, there is and has always seemed to have been one thing or another to make it difficult to own the brand. I know you guys want this to succeed and I wish you the best and I hope I'm wrong . There is a lot for GG to overcome and I think any obstacle / objection should be avoided. I hope for you guys torrot has the deep pockets and can promote the brand into a successful marque and your long term suffering is over. As for me I doubt I'll ever sell my first gasser So I'll still be here hanging around but I don't know if I'll be owning an 18 like I hoped to do. I am a cheap SOB though. But I'm also a big GG enthusiast.
Stoby
How about discounts for gasgas forum guys = long time enthusiasts esp. where there are no test rides available. I'd of been super psyched to be able to test one. As i'm sure others would be also . I just think they are pricing themselves out of contention for non believers. KYB suspension comes standard on $7000 yamahas . It just reminds me of gasgas pre torrot , all over again, there is and has always seemed to have been one thing or another to make it difficult to own the brand. I know you guys want this to succeed and I wish you the best and I hope I'm wrong . There is a lot for GG to overcome and I think any obstacle / objection should be avoided. I hope for you guys torrot has the deep pockets and can promote the brand into a successful marque and your long term suffering is over. As for me I doubt I'll ever sell my first gasser So I'll still be here hanging around but I don't know if I'll be owning an 18 like I hoped to do. I am a cheap SOB though. But I'm also a big GG enthusiast.
Stoby
Mark Berg - CPD
Site Sponsor
I am done...spoken too much already!
Best of wishes to everyone! Happy and safe riding to all.
Best of wishes to everyone! Happy and safe riding to all.
TheLetterJ
New member
It would be a tough market being that Beta North America is based in Paso Robles. We've already seen 2 KTM dealers fail in this area (yet there's still more KTM's than Beta's at local events.) Most riders around here are either on dual sports, or still riding mx bikes. Beside's my own, I've only ever seen 1 gasser on the trails within a 100 mile radius of me. It would be really cool to see GasGas "come out swinging" on Beta's "home turf." Maybe GasGas could do a demo at one of our CCMA events, the New Year's day "Hangover" ride at Pozo pulls in a pretty good crowd.
