?? Added flywheel weight to 2003 EC200, bike ran for test ride now wont start

jostby said:
if you have spark then the problem isn't the kill switch wires (they kill the spark;) ) and won't be any other wire issues either. Keyway is a good clue it isn't a timing issue.
The only other thing is fuel/compression.

Is the plug getting wet after you have been trying to start it? Not wet = no fuel.
If the plug isn't wet try laying the bike on its side until fuel dribbles from the overflow then try to start it.

Next is to check the rings to see if they have stuck. My kid burned his rings (polite way to say he melted things) and the bike still felt like it had compression when trying to start it but wouldn't even pop.
Click to expand...

10-4, one question though. If the ring were stuck then I would not be able to turn the engine from the flywheel by hand right? Also, if this helps, my bike pops after a few kick, and the plug is wet.
 
if the piston sticks to the cylinder you won't be able to turn it. If the rings stick to the piston it may still be possible to turn it over depending on how much damage has been done. My kids bike felt fine.

If the bike pops but doesn't start I wonder if something moved the stator where it's screwed to the engine case causing the timing to be off?

Does it pop like a backfire? Or does it sound like it would start if you could only kick it over a little faster?
 
Just one question, have you actually checked the compression w/a good compression gauge? I always think I can "feel" compression with my foot on the kickstarter but many people have been fooled.
 
iajim said:
Just one question, have you actually checked the compression w/a good compression gauge? I always think I can "feel" compression with my foot on the kickstarter but many people have been fooled.
Click to expand...

+1

Fuel + Spark + Comp = Running.

Start digging deeper. Have you tried a new plug? Are you kicking choke on/off? throttle open/closed? How are the reeds? Are you certain there is nothing in the intake tract? (old rag). If you've got all 3 above then you need to make sure you have right air/fuel ratio and it should go.
 
Ok, lets back up a bit ...

"I have rebuilt the carb twice and it is recieving fuel properly. When i pull the plug after kicking it 10 to 15 times it is wet without an buildup, for some reason it just wont fire. On the 10th to 15th kick the bike does a nice big puff of smoke si i believe that combined with how it feels, tells me i have good compression."

You also stated that you have replaced the plug, Is this the plug you replaced or is this the replacement? Is it wet from fuel? Oil? Coolant?

1st step is to go back to what was changed [most likely the culprit], how much clearance is there between the FWW and the components on the stator? Check the components for abrasions due to contact. Take a good look at the windings, wires, igniter.

Have you tried putting the old FWW back on and trying to start it?

FWIW, the spark plug keeps nagging at my brain on this. Your description and evidence just sound so simple, like a fuel fouled plug. When you are checking the spark, do you hear a nice rapid "snap" when it sparks or is it a slow quiet spark?

I would think that if it were an issue caused by the flywheel, there would have been some kind of running issue [ie;popping/sputtering/hesitation] during the checkout ride. You said that it ran fine and you simply shut it down and parked it for 4/5 days.

heck, it could be as simple as a critter having bitten/pulled the plug wire and when you pull it over to test for spark all is good until you put it back into position, opening the connection again, thus losing spark when attempting to start it.

It may turn out to be something else, but I have found most often when i get stumped on an issue [30yrs as a tech, I have been stumped a few times] it is from "over thinking" the problem and going back to the basics will quickly get me in the right direction.

Someone already mentioned to do an actual compression test, that would be the next step for me.

As the over thinking continues in my head... have you checked your coolant level? Is it low, due to a possibly bad cyl head o-ring allowing the coolant to seep into the cylinder after it was shut down. That would cause starting issues. Sometimes a latex glove [like a Dr uses] stretched over the radiator fill can show this. If it is bad enough, you will see it inflate as you continue to kick the motor over for a bit.

JMO's I hope they help.

One more thing, have you tried to roll/bump start it?
 
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Reply to the last three

Thank you first of all for helping me on this. I have tried 2 new spark plugs. When I have pulled a plug it is wet with gas. I have tried to start it with choke on, throttle open, throttle closed, and every other which way. Last night I tried to start it without out the FWW and no luck. There were no signs that the weight was causing any abrasions or contact issues. The stator is advanced all the way in the slots, so I might move it to center tonight. I will also do a compression test, what should I be showing for compression. Finally I will pull all electrical components for a closer inspection. Please continue brain storming with me and provide ideas, they are really helping. If the trouble shooting does not work tonight, I will shoot a video of trying to start it and link it to YouTube from here to see if that helps any.
 
Jakobi said:
No rags stuffed in the air boot? Compression should really be around 170 - 200psi.
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I will check all the air passage tonight and compression, thanks for the number

Also, I have tried roll starting it and the bike fires for a brief couple of seconds but dies quickly like it's choking. The sound it makes for the quick seconds is a very low quite choking sound.
 
The stator should not be mounted to the stops one way or the other. 2K-3s have an insert to locate them correctly, 2K-2s do not. Which do you have?

My other guess is the HV coil wire. This has happened to me twice on two GGs. The bond to the coil breaks down and lets in moisture. Conductor corrodes. HV leaks around insulatiion. When checked you will see a spark, but under compression in the engine the spark may not occur due to the extra resistance in the wire. This problem can occur in an instant.
 
GMP said:
The stator should not be mounted to the stops one way or the other. 2K-3s have an insert to locate them correctly, 2K-2s do not. Which do you have?

My other guess is the HV coil wire. This has happened to me twice on two GGs. The bond to the coil breaks down and lets in moisture. Conductor corrodes. HV leaks around insulatiion. When checked you will see a spark, but under compression in the engine the spark may not occur due to the extra resistance in the wire. This problem can occur in an instant.
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I have an 03. I will relocate it tonight as well and check the hv wire.

Thank you
 
Then you have a 2k-2, The Light mx Ignition with the small flywheel, which also explains why you would need the fww:D

I have been folowing this topic very closely, as I have just made a fww for my friend who have a '02 MC300 with the small fw, we just installed it and tested it last week, but did not try to start the bike since then:eek:..

Hope you find the bug, and that it is not related to the fww;).
 
some ignition covers may touch the FWW and therefor may need double gaskets to create some extra play.
not that this could prevent your bike from firing up though...:rolleyes:
 
mswilkes said:
I will check all the air passage tonight and compression, thanks for the number

Also, I have tried roll starting it and the bike fires for a brief couple of seconds but dies quickly like it's choking. The sound it makes for the quick seconds is a very low quite choking sound.
Click to expand...

Compression test is complete and it only read 30 PSI. Whats next top end rebuild, and if so where is the best place to get rings. Can the tope end go bad without warning?
 
That is waaay low, pull the head and have a look. If nothing else prepare yourself to pull the cylinder too.
 
Yeah its a 2K-2, but had to ask. Occasionally there is someone who wants a weight on a "3".

30 PSI is ridiculously low, so much so that it must not be correct. You would know something is wrong by kicking it, plus, it would not run one minute and not the next.

From that pic of the ignition, it appears to be a mess. Perhaps something is corroded and was disturbed during the FWW install. I still lean toward an ignition problem/weak spark. Go through EVERYTHING.

Here is a pic of a correctly timed 2K-2.
 

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When the cylinder is removed, look for gearbox oil inside the crankcases. It is thicker (and often a different colour) than fuel / 2 stroke oil mix.
 
If you haven't already removed the top end, do another compression test. I agree 30psi is completely out of whack. I was thinking more of a broken ring and low compression around 75-80 psi that just happend to occur at the time of the FWW removal. The comp. test would just remove one possibility. A ballpark figure is 90 psi needed just to start and run. I lean towards a stator or coil problem. Either find a dealer/shop that can test them or someone w/same ignition and start swapping components one at a time. In the meanwhile, run another compression test, at least to give yourself a reference number when the time for a new piston/rings is needed. Jim
 
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