Dirt Bike Gas Gas article

[Lonestar4x4]

Clay, you should start a poll. I rarely trail ride, typically race once or twice a month. I would take durability over saving a couple pounds any day. My Gas Gas actually feels lighter to me already than my KTM 200 did while riding. I'm still getting used to the turning ability of the Gas Gas though as it's way quicker than I'm used to.

 

[tnttimber]

My 2005 EC250 weighs in at 256 -- with:

Full armor (Aluminum skid, carbon pipe, bark busters, rads, rear shark fin)
Half tank of fuel
Bib Mousse front and rear
Spare tube (used for racers as I swept for a race).

Did I miss anything?

Drives me nuts when people weigh a bike with half a tank of fuel! Weigh it empty or full.

 

[AZRickD]

1.5 gallons x 6 = 9-ish pounds

I'll would've emptied the tank (or filled it), but I'd rather do math.

 

[troffer88]

I would bet 245 is pretty close

 

[Jakobi]

People get so caught up on the numbers.. Its how it feels and handles thats really important.

 

[twowheels]

I wish we had a way to determine how many riders:
1. Never race
2. Race once or twice a year
3. Race at least once a month.

Doesn't matter if you never race or race every weekend, every customer is important. But it would help us with marketing. By the way...when I worked at the orange company we struggled with this too.

Thinking I had seen something that addresses those questions I came across this poll

http://gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6743

With a little tweak it might give you the info you're looking for, and with better participation the picture becomes even clearer.

 

[desertgasser300]

Gas Gas Spain lists the 2012 300E as dryweight 225lbs. Hard to believe oil and fuel could add 10lbs.to it?

 

[3beejay3]

I wish we had a way to determine how many riders:
1. Never race
2. Race once or twice a year
3. Race at least once a month.

Doesn't matter if you never race or race every weekend, every customer is important. But it would help us with marketing. By the way...when I worked at the orange company we struggled with this too.

From my observations here in Ontario Canada(being involved in the racing and DS community), the numbers would very possibly look something like this:
(add 1 and 2 together) 80-90% of all off road riders & dual sport riders(600cc & under).
3. 10-20% of offroad & DS riders.
4. MX usage- reverse the percentages

The numbers may vary somewhat in other areas.....(I'd suggest the racer(#3) numbers might be about 10-15 % points higher in the US and OZ)
They'd definitely be higher in places like the UK, cause for many, if you want to ride offroad, you're only choice is to race.

Here's the thing(this commentary isn't meant to be critical); The offroad bikes(GG, KTM, Husq, Beta, TM etc.) are designed and developed for the top level continental Euro racers (ie EWC etc.), but are actually sold in most part to the casual weekend plonkers all over the world & used in way different situations. This has been a big issue in the husky community with the transmissions they supply on their bikes. The huskys are a pretty good bike but the trans ratios are way too tight, especially on the 4ts. It's perfect for EWC type closed course events, but sucks in the rest of the wide open world where the bulk of the bikes are sold(& who they're actually sold to and how they're used- see above %ages): North, Central & South America, Australasia & NZ, Russia & Eastern Europe.
KTM has it pretty much figured out with good useable wide ratio trannys on their XCWs, but they have their other issues (& price$$).
Also, many mainland Euros really aren't allowed to ride in water anymore (cross rivers etc.) in their events, so most bikes aren't properly designed in that regard. (IMO)

Basically, it seems to me the bikes are built for the 10% & Euros, but actually sold to the 90%.

I've said it before(elsewhere) & I'll say it again(here); Manufacturers- Bring some development bikes to Corduroy Enduro country up here. Spend a whole season developing the bikes to be able to properly handle the conditions presented up here. Now you have a bike that you can sell all over the world to anyone, for any condition.

Don't even get me started about the Jap bikes......

Just some thoughts

Brian

 

[Clay]

Brian,
Kind of confused here.......If Gas Gas did development at the Corduroy or anywhere else in North America, what would change about the bike? Maybe a larger tank? Heavier springs for larger riders? What else?
Clay

 

[ScottyR]

If the bikes were developed at the Corduroy Enduro, they would have 25lbs of body armour, a 30" seat height because you spend all day dabbing and a snorkel intake for the water crossings and a trials tire on the back.

I will pass on the Cord Special Edition.

 

[Neil E.]

A new thread could be started about what should be changed on the GG bikes. I always tinker/fiddle/modify my bikes because it's fun to do. Based on my 2011, there are only three areas where the bike should be better:
1) Airbox - it's just a collection of random parts that don't seal well, should be a complete one piece assembly with proper access
2) Gearbox ratios - I'd like to see 5th a bit taller and 6th much taller
3) Shock access - should be easier to get to
BUT
1) The places I ride don't have creek crossings
2) 6th gear is OK because going faster would be reckless and a bad image to other forest users
3) The shock is fine, so I haven't touched it. The forks can be cured with some work.

For 2012 the suspension is better, so that really only leaves the airbox. I don't see any current bike being better than the GasGas.

 

[tnttimber]

The new gasser platform is 99% perfect in my mind. I know that the fact it weighs 245 does not matter to me because I know that they ride much lighter than any other bike in it's class.

The problem is that new customers who have never ridden a gasser are going to be turned off by the weight being 20 pounds heavier than the competition.

Every ktm owner that has ridden my gasser is disappointed to get back on their high dollar pumpkin after the test ride and all comment on how light the gasser is and how it carves side to side in the single track.

Now if there is a way to trim 10 pounds off the curent bike that would just make the greatest bike even greater. We just need to figure out a way to get new customers to try them and they will like them.

That Dirt Bike article was a good one and it will help with sales.

Nate

 

[Clay]

The new gasser platform is 99% perfect in my mind. I know that the fact it weighs 245 does not matter to me because I know that they ride much lighter than any other bike in it's class.

The problem is that new customers who have never ridden a gasser are going to be turned off by the weight being 20 pounds heavier than the competition.

Every ktm owner that has ridden my gasser is disappointed to get back on their high dollar pumpkin after the test ride and all comment on how light the gasser is and how it carves side to side in the single track.

Now if there is a way to trim 10 pounds off the curent bike that would just make the greatest bike even greater. We just need to figure out a way to get new customers to try them and they will like them.

That Dirt Bike article was a good one and it will help with sales.

Nate

I agree that most customers believe that lighter is better. A friend of mine who always argued that a 4T was better would always point to the extra weight keeping the bike planted. I never understood that until I had to ride Husabergs (becauseI was selling them).A certain amount of weight was desirable because it did keep the bike from deflecting off of trail junk. The HB was too much of a good thing. I never would have guessed that the GG weighed 245. It simply doesn't feel that heavy. As a matter of fact, it feels lighter than the orange bike becaus the handling is so effortless. I hope customers will keep an open mind and ride the bike before they decide. Of course, the orange kool aid drinkers will always believe that orange is better.

 

[Vindicator]

I really don't care how much it weights... I don't even notice the weight as it handles great, feels lighter than my ex. 07' 300xcw . One of my ride buddies has tried my GG for the 2nd time , he rides a 08' 450xcw ... I can't keep up with him when riding his bike...SO DIFFERENT and such a harsh front fork...I just like his motor , to me the best 4ST motor for Enduro. My friend commented how easy is to ride my GG and he also felt the GG was lighter than his

 

[socalgasgas]

Someone said something about reducing the weight of cases but if they did that it would make the top of the bike fill heavier by taking away the lower center of gravity. If we can just get people to try them they will buy them just the way they are.

 

[3beejay3]

Brian,
Kind of confused here.......If Gas Gas did development at the Corduroy or anywhere else in North America, what would change about the bike? Maybe a larger tank? Heavier springs for larger riders? What else?
Clay

If any given mfr developed offroad bikes for the purposes they are actually used for by the 90%, I think they'd have a bit more built in versatility, armour(or have certain parts designed such that they don't need it), 1 piece easy access airboxes- so the bike could traverse water up to the seat(or almost), longer 5th and 6th(or 7th?), for Desert, road connection & fire road use (not trail use, as Neil mentioned).
Durable & robust shifters & Brake pedals.
Have consistent & common fastener sizes for ease of trailside maintenance & repair.
Why not have real barkbuster style handguards instead of those cheesy plastic roost deflectors? When was the last time you saw a woods, or trail rider without real guards?
Robust, adjustable built in steering dampers.....
Seat heights are a debated issue, but it's a lot easier & cheaper to make a bike taller with a tall seat, than it is to make a tall bike shorter. Better to go a bit shorter from the start, rather than Husky tall. When the rest of the world catches up to the Dutch and Watutsis in average height, that could change..........
With all the clutches Rekluse sells, I'm kinda surprised a bike mfr hasn't started offering them by now.
GG has a reasonable sized tank, but having a bigger optional one would probably not be a bad idea for the desert, big country and OZ guys.
Springs have to be custom sized for many guys, so probably not much can be done about that, unless the new air forks(on Kawi I think) prove to be reliable long term- that could solve spring weight issues..

Methinks Scotty has exaggerated a little bit
However, the fact is that most guys anywhere end up adding at least 10-15 pounds of stuff to their bikes, much of it armourplating. Why? cause most of the areas where there are trails are rocky-anywhere in the world. There's a giant aftermarket that creates products due to how the mfrs design(or don't design) their bikes. Al Randt has done Ok in this regard...just for example.
Scott may say he doesn't want a 'cord designed bike', but if he was actually buying a bike to keep & use extensively for 3-5 years(like the 90%), he may change his mind.....

This post and my previous one isn't meant to criticize the current GG bikes, (I think they're pretty good, else I wouldn't have bought one) but is just my personal thoughts & observations(in answer to Clay's question) on who buys offroad bikes and how they're actually used.
I'm sure I've left out a few things also.....

B.

 

[Jakobi]

I don't know if they are too far off the mark to be honest. Not everyone wants a steering damper, bark busters, rad guards etc and those that do like to have choices about which brand or style they are going to run. The same applies with the auto clutches. To answer what you're saying I think the 2012 EC models come pretty close to meeting the needs of 90% of riders. Sure there are a few things we all do that go towards making a bike our own, and a still a few quirks with the brand but they are improving year by year also.

In an ideal world you'd be able to preorder a bike and have to come with everything just the way you want with check box options on bars, tyres, suspension, dampers, clutches, etc. But that then leads to more complex logistics and would also add to overheads.

 

[3beejay3]

I don't know if they are too far off the mark to be honest. Not everyone wants a steering damper, bark busters, rad guards etc and those that do like to have choices about which brand or style they are going to run. The same applies with the auto clutches. To answer what you're saying I think the 2012 EC models come pretty close to meeting the needs of 90% of riders. Sure there are a few things we all do that go towards making a bike our own, and a still a few quirks with the brand but they are improving year by year also.

In an ideal world you'd be able to preorder a bike and have to come with everything just the way you want with check box options on bars, tyres, suspension, dampers, clutches, etc. But that then leads to more complex logistics and would also add to overheads.

Yes- to a point I agree about that (re logistics and so on), but how many offroad riders do you know without barkbuster style handguards? I can't think of anyone in this part of the world. When I was in OZ in May, it was the same way there- everyone had barkbuster style handguards.
Very few without rad protection as well...............

I think Beta has started adding goodies at the factory in the 'Build your bike' program.

 

[Caravan Monster]

Here's the thing(this commentary isn't meant to be critical); The offroad bikes(GG, KTM, Husq, Beta, TM etc.) are designed and developed for the top level continental Euro racers (ie EWC etc.), but are actually sold in most part to the casual weekend plonkers all over the world & used in way different situations.

+1

At the average club enduro in the UK, a large % of participants will be riding the KTM 200 EXC. I think the popularity is due to the engine, which allows you to ride hard without getting beaten up, but can lug a little in the technical stuff too. Gas Gas imports one or two EC 200s, but other than that, no other manufacturer seems to want any of this market share. I appreciate that in some parts of the world, there are more open faster tracks where the bigger bikes will be in their element, but a lot of people everywhere like to ride in the woods and tight tracks, where the 200 engine suits a very broad range of skill and fitness levels. Kawasaki got it right years ago with the kdx 200, and it's as if no one learned from their success. Engine capacities for championship classes are irrelevant to the large majority of riders.

When small Euro manufacturers can find the money to develop ever more bizarre four strokes that no one wants, surely they can spend a little on developing a 200 from either a 125 or 250 bottom end ? There's got to be a load of buyers out there for bikes with good handling european chassis and a reliable, steady engine that the average rider can handle

 

[Jakobi]

Yes- to a point I agree about that (re logistics and so on), but how many offroad riders do you know without barkbuster style handguards? I can't think of anyone in this part of the world. When I was in OZ in May, it was the same way there- everyone had barkbuster style handguards.
Very few without rad protection as well...............

I think Beta has started adding goodies at the factory in the 'Build your bike' program.

I'm in Australia and still running the stock GG handguards. I don't mind them and there is debate that bark busters are responsible for a big percentage of broken wrists, but thats another topic.

I have personally felt very little need to bolt anything to my gasser. I added a damper recently but only cause I had dollars to burn and wanted to experience it. Not that the bike needed it. I added a pipe guard, bash plate, and rad braces (which would for any brand). If I had the 2012 stock plate that is something I wouldn't need.

I almost feel these are more so part of the dealers and buyers negotiations and predelivery than Gas Gas as a whole. If you were a dealer in the local area and everyone wanted those parts I'd do them a deal on them and make sure when they pick it up its as they want it.