May be a good time to kill this thread and move on, the bad behaviour was not on the part of the admin of this forum but the person misrepresenting himself. Most riders just want to own a bike they enjoy without loosing thier shirt. A discussion form like this is a great thing it would be a shame to spoil it!
My recent e-mail to Clay Stuckey of Sherco Offroad
- Thread starter webmaster
- Start date
- Status
Thanks for letting me know how you see it and not mincing any words. I do appreciate it.
I simply made public what Clay was doing. I did send the e-mail to Clay and he responded before I posted here - he admitted it, flamed on GasGas some more, flamed on me and then kinda blamed me... If he would have taken a bit more personal responsibility - I might have approached it differently. Frankly, I just wanted him to stop - I banned him so he could not post any longer, I cleaned up his posts, and I sent him the e-mail.
I have no personal history with Clay - I helped him a great deal when he was the gasgas distributor. And I would do it again; I offered to set up a new sherco forum for him - then he found a forum that already existed (shercoforum.com).
My feeling is that if this reflects badly on Clay - it is the consequence of his actions. And he is solely responsible for his actions. The "dick move" was very prominently done by him - not me.
You said that I was messing "with Clay's livelihood". But Clay is in here messing with the livelihood of Rod & Mark @ gasgas motos u.s. and gasgas dealers - and he gets caught. Yep - this is just an internet forum - and there are a number of parties reliant on it for their livelihood.
I make every effort to remove my personal feelings and look at things from all sides. I rely on the rules of the forum- the user agreement that all agree to - not to do anything "hateful" is one of them - I am pretty sure the issue at hand crosses over that line. And most know that I try to look to see if one is attacking another - versus attacking an idea. And again - this could be easily interpreted as one person attacking another (person or company).
Jeff
Interesting to see some of you die hard Gas Gas guys looking at it this way.Ive seen this forum over react to the mildest comments concerning some of the negatives of the Gassers.
And the web administrator has made it more then clear that this Isnt a say whatever you want kind of forum.And thats understandable.
Ive disagreed with the webmaster and some of the regular clickish bullies in here as how theyve handled negative comments about the Gas Gas brand.
In this case the webmasters hands are obviously tied.
And he is merely trying to insulate himself and the site from any liabilities.
That being said, this thread should be deleted and the topic dropped.
Benefits everyone involved.
Continuing the discussion benefits no one.
And the web administrator has made it more then clear that this Isnt a say whatever you want kind of forum.And thats understandable.
Ive disagreed with the webmaster and some of the regular clickish bullies in here as how theyve handled negative comments about the Gas Gas brand.
In this case the webmasters hands are obviously tied.
And he is merely trying to insulate himself and the site from any liabilities.
That being said, this thread should be deleted and the topic dropped.
Benefits everyone involved.
Continuing the discussion benefits no one.
mtnmanseth
Member
Sounds to me that a trespasser was caught red handed on Jeff's property and booted. Sounds to me that our money paid for a GasGas motorcycle - whether used or new - didn't pay for or entitle any of us to compulsory access and free use of this Internet resource, so we're all hanging out on his turf and he's in charge of how it's managed. I've benefited from (and donated to) the site so, thanks, Jeff, for helping us all keep our bikes running in peak condition regardless of peripheral manufacturer circumstances. However, I agree that it is unfortunate that the brand continues to crash and burn like this...
Responding to ScottyR :
When I got the letter from the lawyer I was going on vacation and didn't have time to monitor his activity and comply with the 'demand letter" sent to me. So I banned him - I didn't have time to watch over him to make sure he didn't cross the line again. He was a sherco importer at that time - so it was a pretty complicated situation. And to be honest - I punted.
The problem is that for Clay to "have his say" he feels he needs to show everyone "what slimebags the spaniards are" (his words, not mine). Given the rules here - I can't see how that is going to work. Can you?
So characterizing it as "we are not letting him defend himself" and a right he should have. Given the situation - even if lawyers were not involved - it ain't gonna work.
Scotty - I do see your posts on the sherco forum and you wrote :
This is false.
Before today - when I had to clean up posts from Bobenduro - If I look at the last month - I closed one thread to add clarity to the discussion and asked that the discussion pick up in a new thread. That's it. And am being accused of deleting and over moderating. Where the heck is that coming from?
As far as banning goes - I can count on one hand the number of people that have been banned here in over 10 years. The only one banned recently has been Bobenduro. and I think that is the only case user banning has been applied in the last year. It is not done often.
jeff
You can't intentionally try to harm another person/company here or any other forum for that matter - or doing anything "hateful" - it is in the user agreement. Part of that boilerplate that everyone clicks and agrees to when they sign up. I warned Clay a couple of times when things heated up in march of last year - apparently he still holds a grudge. I sent him a PM at the time to ask for no mudslinging and said "I know you have disagreements with them - but you can't use this forum as a stick to get them to submit." At the time - he agreed.
When I got the letter from the lawyer I was going on vacation and didn't have time to monitor his activity and comply with the 'demand letter" sent to me. So I banned him - I didn't have time to watch over him to make sure he didn't cross the line again. He was a sherco importer at that time - so it was a pretty complicated situation. And to be honest - I punted.
The problem is that for Clay to "have his say" he feels he needs to show everyone "what slimebags the spaniards are" (his words, not mine). Given the rules here - I can't see how that is going to work. Can you?
So characterizing it as "we are not letting him defend himself" and a right he should have. Given the situation - even if lawyers were not involved - it ain't gonna work.
Yes. He responded to the e-mail in a manner that would be clear to any reasonable person that he was the person responsible.
Scotty - I do see your posts on the sherco forum and you wrote :
Scotty -If anyone says anything bad about GG, the thread is either locked/closed or the member is banned.
So much for free speech.
This is false.
Before today - when I had to clean up posts from Bobenduro - If I look at the last month - I closed one thread to add clarity to the discussion and asked that the discussion pick up in a new thread. That's it. And am being accused of deleting and over moderating. Where the heck is that coming from?
As far as banning goes - I can count on one hand the number of people that have been banned here in over 10 years. The only one banned recently has been Bobenduro. and I think that is the only case user banning has been applied in the last year. It is not done often.
jeff
wrench
Gold Level Site Supporter
Next!!
Jeff's world, Jeff's rules.... Seems pretty simple.
There is so much more "moderation" on other sites in one month than on this forum in 10 years!
Thanks for keeping this place up and running for us Jeff.
There was alot moderation on this forum that was necessary over a year ago due to legal issues between Clay Stuckey and GG Corporate. And I do clearly remember, at that time, that you felt no deletion of posts or threads should happen. And that also no closing of threads should ever happen.
At that time, for legal reasons, we had to delete more threads than I would have liked - the majority of them involved a single person. It was an exception - it is not the rule here...
At this time - there is no focused effort to limit negative posts or threads here. Period.
Several posts were deleted on friday where the user was in violation of the user agreement - doing something where there was very clear intent to harm others - and the topic of this thread. In addition there were legal demands that needed to be met.
jeff
I am going through each post and responding to it.
This one - I think - needs no response.
Thanks
jeff
Stoby
Bronze Level Site Supporter
Who cares
Jeff
Thanks for running this site. I've been on here awhile and this sites helped me on numerous occasion. It's yours do whatever you like . Anyone who feels otherwise should Man up and just be glad we have this site . You caught someone deliberately being a dick and packed him up, good for us.
There should be no explanation needed ,and we should appreciate that you even gave one
Again , Thanks
Stoby
Jeff
Thanks for running this site. I've been on here awhile and this sites helped me on numerous occasion. It's yours do whatever you like . Anyone who feels otherwise should Man up and just be glad we have this site . You caught someone deliberately being a dick and packed him up, good for us.
There should be no explanation needed ,and we should appreciate that you even gave one
Again , Thanks
Stoby
Mark Berg - CPD
Site Sponsor
deletion or censorship
For the record,
I made the decision to request "bobenduro" be removed due to legal proceedings from a year ago that were being violated!
A few comments were over the top once again after a month or so, especially coming from a person within the professional industry and hiding behind a false name, stating to people that they would be an idiot for buying a GG right now. I asked for it to be removed with an explanation of why and who 'bobenduro" to be publicly known as Jeff seemed fit. So please don't direct any faults or any precursor idea that Jeff's website is under any influences other than the legal paperwork he sadly had to be brought into, the first time around, direct those comments to me.
Why, when the person willingly violating the agreement for a second time is this GG's fault, or a another disappointing decision on GG's part to protect itself from slander and some direct insults to management?
I could interject with a couple of paragraphs of the "other side" of fallout between GasGas and Clay Stuckey. But I would be violating the exact agreement that is being violated now. There are two views to every issue. One is expressing his from his point of view and emotions despite legal notices. And the other is respecting the agreement.
If you want to call me and discuss or express your anger personally. I will be more than willing to listen. In the end however, I will not discuss the past fallout between GG offroad and GasGas as it isn't professional. I like Clay and I wish him the best for Sherco. But yet I need to protect the image and rights of GasGas. And currently that is under false attack, speculations, and many, many garage talk interpretations. It doesn't need a past importer who has various reasons, whether true or false to be determined by the courts, convincing people to walk away from a brand due to his distaste. That isn't fair to GGMNA, its dealer network or my employee's.
For the record,
I made the decision to request "bobenduro" be removed due to legal proceedings from a year ago that were being violated!
A few comments were over the top once again after a month or so, especially coming from a person within the professional industry and hiding behind a false name, stating to people that they would be an idiot for buying a GG right now. I asked for it to be removed with an explanation of why and who 'bobenduro" to be publicly known as Jeff seemed fit. So please don't direct any faults or any precursor idea that Jeff's website is under any influences other than the legal paperwork he sadly had to be brought into, the first time around, direct those comments to me.
Why, when the person willingly violating the agreement for a second time is this GG's fault, or a another disappointing decision on GG's part to protect itself from slander and some direct insults to management?
I could interject with a couple of paragraphs of the "other side" of fallout between GasGas and Clay Stuckey. But I would be violating the exact agreement that is being violated now. There are two views to every issue. One is expressing his from his point of view and emotions despite legal notices. And the other is respecting the agreement.
If you want to call me and discuss or express your anger personally. I will be more than willing to listen. In the end however, I will not discuss the past fallout between GG offroad and GasGas as it isn't professional. I like Clay and I wish him the best for Sherco. But yet I need to protect the image and rights of GasGas. And currently that is under false attack, speculations, and many, many garage talk interpretations. It doesn't need a past importer who has various reasons, whether true or false to be determined by the courts, convincing people to walk away from a brand due to his distaste. That isn't fair to GGMNA, its dealer network or my employee's.
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Jacob 'Berg
Member
+1. Thank you Jeff.
memphis2857
New member
Wow! Just Wow! It's a shame that threads like this even need to exist. Clay needs to grow up and focus on promoting his new brand and, all of us forum members need to focus on riding and fixing our bikes. Make better use of your time and go check out the ride reports or answer some tech questions. It's a shame to see people jump on a band wagon and start kicking while someone, or a brand in this case, is down. Spend less time politicking and get out and ride. I promise every time I am riding or working on my bike the last thing I am thinking of is Clay being a jackass or GG filing bankruptcy. What I am thinking about is how much I enjoy this sport and how relaxing it is for me. While it would be a shame to see the brand die it will not affect any one of us except Mark and Rod. We will move on to another brand and just keep riding.
I say thank you Jeff, Mark, and Rod. You guys are a class act. Mark has reached out to me personally just to say thanks for riding a GG and Rod is at some of my local events and is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet. He will talk to you like you have been friends for years and help anyway he can. He even stands in the woods and yells and cheers when his Gassers go by. Lol. Are you going to get that with any other brand in the world? Nope
Again quit bitching and flaming and get out and RIDE.
Thanks again to the people that have helped me along the way. You guys are the reason I would buy another.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I say thank you Jeff, Mark, and Rod. You guys are a class act. Mark has reached out to me personally just to say thanks for riding a GG and Rod is at some of my local events and is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet. He will talk to you like you have been friends for years and help anyway he can. He even stands in the woods and yells and cheers when his Gassers go by. Lol. Are you going to get that with any other brand in the world? Nope
Again quit bitching and flaming and get out and RIDE.
Thanks again to the people that have helped me along the way. You guys are the reason I would buy another.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
swazi_matt
Active member
Wow what a thread. Have seen many like this on other forums,but always liked this one for not being like the others.
My 2c is why has clay got an issue with spaniards? Isn't GG owned by Israelis?
And what is Clay doing about finding Altus DeWet's bike at Erzberg- the only bike stolen from the race paddock was a bling Sherco (whic now reminds me whi I logged on in the first place;-)
My 2c is why has clay got an issue with spaniards? Isn't GG owned by Israelis?
And what is Clay doing about finding Altus DeWet's bike at Erzberg- the only bike stolen from the race paddock was a bling Sherco (whic now reminds me whi I logged on in the first place;-)
bukwheat
New member
My sentiments exactly! Thanks for the forum, Jeff. Thanks to Mark at GoFasters for putting so much work into this great brand. And thanks to Rod, who besides being a personal friend, for being a stand up respectable guy who loves all bikes, not only GG. Rod's "mentor" and my "mentor" was the same guy, a man with morals and true respect for others....Rod knows who I'm talking about.
Thanks to all y'all...and keep a stiff upper lip!
This is a great site and far more civil with much less of the nonsense I see on other boards. Keep up the good work. I'm new to the brand and the information here has been a huge help.
desertgasser300
Banned
You don't have to see eye -to-eye with Jeff(God knows I haven't, lol), but you still need to respect his site!
GasGasDreamer
Platinum Level Site Supporter
Ban Censorship !!!
Thanks Jeff for all the tireless work.
A lot of us would be lost without this site.
And since its yours, you can and should do what ever you want with.
I think Clay had some legitimate issues with GG in his time, but that is now ancient history.
If anyone thinks there's no free speech, open up your own forum.
I just can't stand these 'piss in your ear' type.
Thanks Jeff
Thanks Jeff for all the tireless work.
A lot of us would be lost without this site.
And since its yours, you can and should do what ever you want with.
I think Clay had some legitimate issues with GG in his time, but that is now ancient history.
If anyone thinks there's no free speech, open up your own forum.
I just can't stand these 'piss in your ear' type.
Thanks Jeff
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