2010 EC300 Factory Jetting Specs - WTF?
- Thread starter JP4
- Start date
My GG EC 300 had no real power and blubbers in the midrange.
My old specs
the f... new carburator:
slide #7
main:180
idle: 42
idle screw: 1 1/2
needle: N1EF #1 from top
Temp: 5-12?C or 41-53?F
altitude: 120m
original pipe and turbinecore silencer
The N1EF is to rich in every position.
Now I ordered only the CCK and DDK needle
and replace only the CCK needle #3 from top
Temp: 5?C or 41?F
After more testing the bike got no idle (pulling over) and very bad throttle response.
The DDK CCK don't work for the PWK 38 new model!!!!
My old specs
the f... new carburator:
slide #7
main:180
idle: 42
idle screw: 1 1/2
needle: N1EF #1 from top
Temp: 5-12?C or 41-53?F
altitude: 120m
original pipe and turbinecore silencer
The N1EF is to rich in every position.
Now I ordered only the CCK and DDK needle
and replace only the CCK needle #3 from top
Temp: 5?C or 41?F
After more testing the bike got no idle (pulling over) and very bad throttle response.
The DDK CCK don't work for the PWK 38 new model!!!!
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Jakobi
Super Moderator
Any updates?
I just ordered a few more needles to try out
N3CH and N3EJ..
Also has been noted in another thread that the new Air Striker II carbs with the metal cap that is bolted/screwed on generally requires much leaner jetting and possibly is a 36mm carb as opposed to 38mm.
If everyone could advise which model carb they are using along with their specs it will make for even better info.
Anyone care to measure up one of the newer carbs too?
I just ordered a few more needles to try out
N3CH and N3EJ..
Also has been noted in another thread that the new Air Striker II carbs with the metal cap that is bolted/screwed on generally requires much leaner jetting and possibly is a 36mm carb as opposed to 38mm.
If everyone could advise which model carb they are using along with their specs it will make for even better info.
Anyone care to measure up one of the newer carbs too?
what difference is there between cck and ddk, i'd like to try them but can't find them in italy.
thanks
the DDK has a different lenght(leaner) and taper(richer) to the CCK
but the power charateristics with PWK 38 isn't smooth enough for me I will try a KTM PWK 36-S AG carburator
http://keihin.it/
widebear
Banned
If your looking for smooth you might be better off with the 38.The 36 will have much more direct low to mid throttle response, arm yanking if desired and of course properly jetted. Not a big deal for the guys who ride orange because of the ease of changing to different power valve springs to tame the hit. I did a 36 and air foil back in 02 and took it out , just to much yank for gnarly northwest conditions.
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This is what I found on my 09 EC250R for Hawaii
38p/172m/2 1/4as - good traction, slow rev, excellent mpg
40p/172m/2 1/4as - good traction, great power, revs good. Current jetting
42p/180m/2 1/4-1/2 - motocross like, lots of power, quick rev signs off early, low traction wheel spin
We ride between 300-2000 ft. 1st - 3rd mostly. Gearing 12/51
38p/172m/2 1/4as - good traction, slow rev, excellent mpg
40p/172m/2 1/4as - good traction, great power, revs good. Current jetting
42p/180m/2 1/4-1/2 - motocross like, lots of power, quick rev signs off early, low traction wheel spin
We ride between 300-2000 ft. 1st - 3rd mostly. Gearing 12/51
I just ordered and put in a CCK needle in my 11 300, at first the bike ran like crap, couldn't get it to idle, terrible response ....blah.....blah.... swung back by the truck and put the N1EF back in and same thing. So I got to rooting around with a few things and found that my choke had hung up slighty when I tilited the carb to change the needle. Fixed that, threw the CCK back in and Oulaaa. Bike now has a very linear pull. Definitely pulls harder than the N1EF, (had my buddies identical bike with stock jetting to compare to). Went with the Air Screw 1 1/2 turns out, and had to touch up the idle a hair. Also dropped to a 38 PJ from 40. All I can say is the cable choke is garbage. Take it out everyone, there literaly is only two turns of crappy plastic threads holding that POS in! I've already order a Yamaha choke assembly off a PWK carb. $30 or something like that but to me its worth it. Hard to argue with simplicity for a part like this. Its not like its hard to get at.
I've also ordered a N3EH KTM needle to try out but so far, I'm liking the CCK
I've also ordered a N3EH KTM needle to try out but so far, I'm liking the CCK
I run a 38 PJ, 175 main and A/S 1 1/2 turns out. Carb is a Air Striker 2, 38mm, #7 slide, CCK in clip #3 from the top. I ride mainly around 2000 to 4500 ft. And there is next to no humidity here. My bike ran okay with the N1EF needle, but a little on the rich side. Much smoother power with the CCK, very linear, no distinct hit. Gonna have to wait another month to try the N3EH as they're on backorder. I did have to turn my idle up slightly with the CCK.
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Jakobi
Super Moderator
N3EH will have more hit than the N1EF if you run it in sunshine mode!
Jakobi
Super Moderator
The carby has changed, for some 2010's. The 2011s have been identified as some having a 36mm, others 38mm.. Just a few more variables to throw into a the mix.
JP4
New member
I'm the original OP.
After a ton of tweaking, here's the dilemma.
My current workable setting:
15C - 750' ASL
2010 EC300 with Airstriker I
38 Pilot
JD Blue needle - 3rd clip
AS 2 turns
Idle screw 4 turns from full in (~15 turns availble)
7 slide
178 main
Here's the deal. Like so many others I'm fighting an idle screw that has to be turned way in. With the above set-up I can get the bike to run well. Steady idle, barks off the bottom (a little too much for the tight woods stuff), the main is probably a little fat but I haven't had the chance to run much WFO stuff - it's been a soggy Spring here.
I don't get why the idle screw has to be so far in? This has been the case since I got the bike. With my current set-up I don't think it's a case of 'ticking/pulling over' - the idle screw pushing onto the slide.
I know some say I need a leaner needle. I've tried the leanest needles I can get my hands on (JD Red) and still the idle is way turned in. I'm waiting on a NE3H needle. When I compare a N0ZH needle that I have, the JD needles (blue and red) are larger in diameter through the body and at the tip. I don't think a leaner needle - if I could find one -is gonna solve the problem.
The 38 pilot has got the idle screw out more than any other set-up. I tried fatter pilots (40 - 42 -45) and the idle problem got worse and they were way too rich. With a 42 the bike would start cold without choke, and loaded up after a short time at idle. The 45 was worse. The 40 seemed ok, but the 38 gets the idle screw out more.
I'm a little confused? The bike seems good with the present set-up, but I don't know why the idle screw has to be so far turned in? I don't have any security torx screw bits to check the pilot block for missing o-rings - see this - http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5311&highlight=idle
A friend gave me a B5EF needle. It's 2-3 mm longer than every needle I've tried yet - that's gotta be way leaner. I'm gonna give it a go just for shits and giggles. Otherwise I guess I'm gonna just accept that this beast has a way turned in idle.
Anybody have any ideas?
Thanks,
Jason.
After a ton of tweaking, here's the dilemma.
My current workable setting:
15C - 750' ASL
2010 EC300 with Airstriker I
38 Pilot
JD Blue needle - 3rd clip
AS 2 turns
Idle screw 4 turns from full in (~15 turns availble)
7 slide
178 main
Here's the deal. Like so many others I'm fighting an idle screw that has to be turned way in. With the above set-up I can get the bike to run well. Steady idle, barks off the bottom (a little too much for the tight woods stuff), the main is probably a little fat but I haven't had the chance to run much WFO stuff - it's been a soggy Spring here.
I don't get why the idle screw has to be so far in? This has been the case since I got the bike. With my current set-up I don't think it's a case of 'ticking/pulling over' - the idle screw pushing onto the slide.
I know some say I need a leaner needle. I've tried the leanest needles I can get my hands on (JD Red) and still the idle is way turned in. I'm waiting on a NE3H needle. When I compare a N0ZH needle that I have, the JD needles (blue and red) are larger in diameter through the body and at the tip. I don't think a leaner needle - if I could find one -is gonna solve the problem.
The 38 pilot has got the idle screw out more than any other set-up. I tried fatter pilots (40 - 42 -45) and the idle problem got worse and they were way too rich. With a 42 the bike would start cold without choke, and loaded up after a short time at idle. The 45 was worse. The 40 seemed ok, but the 38 gets the idle screw out more.
I'm a little confused? The bike seems good with the present set-up, but I don't know why the idle screw has to be so far turned in? I don't have any security torx screw bits to check the pilot block for missing o-rings - see this - http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5311&highlight=idle
A friend gave me a B5EF needle. It's 2-3 mm longer than every needle I've tried yet - that's gotta be way leaner. I'm gonna give it a go just for shits and giggles. Otherwise I guess I'm gonna just accept that this beast has a way turned in idle.
Anybody have any ideas?
Thanks,
Jason.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
I admit mine has to be turned in quite a bit to sustain an idle, but i still have a range of tunability. I think the problem is more so when you have it screwed in to the stops and still can't get an idle.
As stated, you're still too rich on the needle diameter. (The small straight before the taper, that overlaps the pilot circuit). This is evident by the smaller pilots, and adjustments with airscrew making things better.
In my opinion though, if you're happy with how the bike is performing and it will maintain an idle hot and cold, then be happy with it
I'm changing from my N3EG to a N3CH to see what difference it makes on mine, and if I can be bothered i might even try the N3EJ. Will get back with the results.
As stated, you're still too rich on the needle diameter. (The small straight before the taper, that overlaps the pilot circuit). This is evident by the smaller pilots, and adjustments with airscrew making things better.
In my opinion though, if you're happy with how the bike is performing and it will maintain an idle hot and cold, then be happy with it
I'm changing from my N3EG to a N3CH to see what difference it makes on mine, and if I can be bothered i might even try the N3EJ. Will get back with the results.
I have the same bike with the same carb, and I agree with Jakobi on the needle being too rich at the idle portion only. The length of the needle would not have an effect on the idle. Just be careful that the longer needle does not bottom out in the main jet and prop up the slide.
I tested a bunch of needles, CCK, CCL(mismarked I found out... ) N1EF, N8HG, BGL, ECL.
I found that the stock diameter needle, N1EF is 2.705mm in diameter. Apparently for whatever reason this needle is too rich on the upper straight portion for the bike to idle right as it supplies too much fuel.
The answer to your idling questions is to get a needle with the larger diameter straight portion of at least 2.715mm or larger. That would be the same as an N1EG. Another step larger would be an N1EH at 2.725mm. Going larger on diameter on the straight restricts how much fuel comes up through the needle orfice. This diameter only affects the idle area.
I found that I was flooding the bike with fuel at idle no matter where the idle screw was. It was so rich that the pilot air screw had really no affect on things. Also with the weather getting hotter out the rich idle condition will magnify itself even more.
I'm not saying you have to run an N1Ex taper however just get the needle straight diameter lean (thick) enough and go from there.
I tested a bunch of needles, CCK, CCL(mismarked I found out... ) N1EF, N8HG, BGL, ECL.
I found that the stock diameter needle, N1EF is 2.705mm in diameter. Apparently for whatever reason this needle is too rich on the upper straight portion for the bike to idle right as it supplies too much fuel.
The answer to your idling questions is to get a needle with the larger diameter straight portion of at least 2.715mm or larger. That would be the same as an N1EG. Another step larger would be an N1EH at 2.725mm. Going larger on diameter on the straight restricts how much fuel comes up through the needle orfice. This diameter only affects the idle area.
I found that I was flooding the bike with fuel at idle no matter where the idle screw was. It was so rich that the pilot air screw had really no affect on things. Also with the weather getting hotter out the rich idle condition will magnify itself even more.
I'm not saying you have to run an N1Ex taper however just get the needle straight diameter lean (thick) enough and go from there.
stainlesscycle
Site Sponsor
so what you're saying is a ccm/ddm will most likely idle better than a cck/ddk
if air screw/idle screw has no effect - it is in fact 'k' diameter (2.7mm) is too rich of a needle.
many people are chasing float height to fix idle issue...
if air screw/idle screw has no effect - it is in fact 'k' diameter (2.7mm) is too rich of a needle.
many people are chasing float height to fix idle issue...
The idle issues for me have been fixed with a combination of different things.
Float height: I had to lower my floats about 2-3mm, just so gas doesn't drip out on the sidestand.
Needle diameter: the stock needle, 2.705mm in diameter passes too much fuel at idle. The 300 pulls a lot of vacuum due to large displacement and if you could measure intake manifold vacuum at idle it would be more than a 250 and more than a 200cc bike.
The #7 slide I have is notched at the center bottom and lines up with the needle jet block shroud creating even more vacuum in that pocket where the needle sticks out of the needle jet orfice (emulsion tube).
I believe that the pullover from the thin needle contributes to the rich idle condition. Think about it. When the motor is cold it may idle fine but after you ride for a few miles and it heats up, it idles really low or just stalls out.
So with the throttle closed, a thin needle, higher than necessary float height, the massive vacuum signal from the 300cc of displacement, and the notch in the slide along with a hot engine that doesn't need as much fuel at idle, yeah, I think the recipe is there for a hot no-idle situation.
I think folks may have sucess fine tuning the pilot jet, needle diameter and air screw. I didn't want to spend the money on a #8 slide as of yet.
The K and L diameter needles ran fine in my bike when the temps were in the 50-60 degree range. At 90 degrees, I needed a thicker needle so it would idle again.
Float height: I had to lower my floats about 2-3mm, just so gas doesn't drip out on the sidestand.
Needle diameter: the stock needle, 2.705mm in diameter passes too much fuel at idle. The 300 pulls a lot of vacuum due to large displacement and if you could measure intake manifold vacuum at idle it would be more than a 250 and more than a 200cc bike.
The #7 slide I have is notched at the center bottom and lines up with the needle jet block shroud creating even more vacuum in that pocket where the needle sticks out of the needle jet orfice (emulsion tube).
I believe that the pullover from the thin needle contributes to the rich idle condition. Think about it. When the motor is cold it may idle fine but after you ride for a few miles and it heats up, it idles really low or just stalls out.
So with the throttle closed, a thin needle, higher than necessary float height, the massive vacuum signal from the 300cc of displacement, and the notch in the slide along with a hot engine that doesn't need as much fuel at idle, yeah, I think the recipe is there for a hot no-idle situation.
I think folks may have sucess fine tuning the pilot jet, needle diameter and air screw. I didn't want to spend the money on a #8 slide as of yet.
The K and L diameter needles ran fine in my bike when the temps were in the 50-60 degree range. At 90 degrees, I needed a thicker needle so it would idle again.
