APT SmartCarb
- Thread starter gasgasman
- Start date
Here's a good one Wally. I can post on over 20 forums (over 50,500 views on KTMTalk and over 37,000 on GG) with no problem whatsoever. I try to communicate with those over at Cafehusky in line with their discussions with no promotion or marketing of any kind (quite a few have bought the SmartCarb and I would think would have a "right" to ask legitimate questions. Yet it takes the moderator hours to days to decide if he will "allow" my posts. Yet we can have a forum that is completely promoting Lectron's, who is also not a sponsor of the site. What a Joke!
Here's the reply for those poor souls over at CafeHusky confused about what is the better carburetion solution.
454x said: ↑
36mm seems to be the ticket, the power jet will always be usefull especialy in the sand snow mud hill climbs any where the revs are high the powerjet will be working.The Lectron will also handle elevation changes as well as tempeture also gives you more torque horse power and better mileage and,comes set up for your application. Alot of value there for only 299.00.
Remember the adjustable powerjet is another $25.00.
The Lectron will NOT handle elevation or temperature changes without adjustment.
I think what's not widely understood about the design of the SmartCarb is that the altitude compensation circuit is constantly in fluid communication with the float bowl, and reacts not only proportional to static pressures that build up in the venturi but also to the total dynamic pressures (velocities) traveling through the venturi. Therefore not only does it allow the float bowl to "read" atmospheric pressures and densities, but it also acts like a very refined power jet (without any additional hoses or features), and as the engine reaches the top of it's rev's the the fuel in the bowl is literally hammered up the nozzle. So apart from purely aperture size (the opening of the metering rod and nozzle interface at wide open), fuel flow is greatly increased because of the added pressures against it. At points of maximum so called venturi vacuum the diving forces against the fuel are greater than this maximum value because of forces both pulling and driving fuel flow. I've said this before, it is almost impossible to burn a piston with the SmartCarb and no pistons have been hurt during the development of this carburetor.
Happy Holidays!
Thanks for clearing that up Corey. I knew there had to be a difference and was wondering why you didn't respond on CH. Doesn't make sense for them not to let you answer questions. IMHO the Huskys having the Mikuni's need the SmartCarb more than any other bikes I've ridden. Thanks again and thanks to this site for allowing you answer our qestions.
You're welcome John. Last week I convinced my marketing team to go ahead and support CafeHusky as a top level sponsor and was even preparing a banner for their site. After today however and watching everyone else being able to post their comments immediately and my post being in perpetual review by moderators, I'm done with CH. I do think it's interesting though that no one over there realizes that we have tested Lectrons for years and the fact that I worked with and was a personal friend of the man that invented them. If we didn't know for a fact that the SmartCarb was way superior to Lectrons we likely wouldn't have continued development and went ahead and marketed them. Doesn't matter though it will all become clear real soon, when everyone sees what we are really up to.
Last edited:
.Cory,
Kelly here from Motosportz. First off there is no reason to be bitter in your posts. Someone sent me a carb they had purchased from you as they thought it was great and knew I rode a ton and liked testing and reviewing stuff so they sent it to me (Thanks John). I have no dog in this fight. Simply tested a carb. I loved the APT and spent a lot of time and effort reviewing, testing over several rides and taking a bunch of pictures and spending hours writing text and answering questions. I think this in some part led to you having to open a pre-order system. Your welcome. Instead of coming here and calling me a "poor soul" like I am some idiot and know nothing maybe you would be better served but just letting us know the facts about your APT carb and the advantages without bashing those that are actually promoting and publicizing your product? Vinduro "whatever" as you call him is a mutli time ISDE guy and has used the quick silver and Lectron which are both earlier generations of the metering rod design. There is also TMX, TMxx, PWK, CPC and many other carbs. There will always be competition. That said your carb is great and works fantastic.
As for CH I and many find it the best forum about motorcycles because of the excellent moderation. There are no politics there (not allowed) which makes it all about motorcycles and I enjoy that. You act bent out of shape that you can't go on there and bash Lectron like you just did here. Then you say "they" are allowed to say whatever they want about Lectron. Well "we" were just posting there. We are not the manufacturer like you are. The owner of Lectron never posted there. That's the difference. Read the rules of that forum (which is very similar to any forum) if you want to be from a company and talk about your product (which is advertising) then you need to be an advertiser like everyone else doing that. That's how it works. You "convinced the marketing team to advertise on CH" Well I would think that would take little convincing how inexpensive it is and how there is already two monster threads talking about how great your carb is. Just take the high road and play the game, it is real simple, inexpensive and very much to your advantage. I was uncensored nor limited in my posts about the APT and Lectron because I do not work at either of those companies. OK?
So instead of bashing people and web sites that are in fact sending you piles of hopeful customers maybe you should just post where you can within the rules about your product and why it is better, moved forward and such. You did a good job of explaining that here and you should just leave it at that. Simple.
As I wrote in my testing the APT is fantastic. I love it. You state that you tested the Lectron "Duh!"... Well I would certainly hope so and completely figured you would have. Why the bitterness? I also tested the Lectron and you know what, seems pretty similar in functionality and performance in my real world use (for me). You make some very good points what yours is advanced and I also posted some of those very points. Some people are also buying the TMxx JD kit as they want to make that carb work. My point is you have a great product, take the high road and explain why yours is good and leave it there. I did not even know about this post from you until I got several Emails pissed of people saying F Cory and APT because of your response and bashing those that posted on your products in a very positive way. That's not good. Your product is very good, it will sell itself. It will also sell Lectrons as many people who never know about metering rod carbs are now seeking info. this happens with any product. Needs some rad guards? Lots of choices. Want simple inexpensive ones? There are lots of those. Want some expensive Billet CNC machined ones? There are some of those as well. It is all good. Price points and quality products are what will dictate where you are in the market not internet bashing. I am still learning and struggling with being a manufacturer and industry guy without being to biased and apposing other products. It is tricky and we all hold our products dearly. And when you have piles invested it can make you reactive and touchy about the subject. I completely understand.
BTW I take non of this personally. It does not change my plan. If you want to discard Vinduro and my experience that's fine. Were just a couple of dirtbike riders that posted about a product like many do all day long. If your going to go around posting stuff like "poor souls" like we are idiots I don't see how this is going to further your business or gain you sales. Just food for thought.
I think the APT is great. I think the Lectron also bring similar performance and some interesting approaches to the table. I know I like both better than a standard carb. Its all great stuff. You will sell piles.
I really appreciate what you guys have done and the time it must have taken to design and build this thing. It works fantastic and I love it. I am still in shock how much better my bike runs with it on there and how when I went back to my TMX how much I wanted that instant throttle resonance and strong smooth power back. You have a great product that will be successful on it's own merits and user reviews like these here and on many other web forums.
thanks
Kelly
Motosportz
Kelly, first off let me say thank you for your indepent evaluation and it seems you build and sell great products and have quite a following, so in part I'm sure it has certainly increased interest in the SC. I was going to call you directly when you were finished with your evaluation, but from the direction the forum has taken it seems like Lectron is your choice so you may not want to be hearing from me, which is fine.The pre purchase program was already in place due to a lot of interest from the KTM and GasGas riders and factory efforts. I as well would be happy to address this publicly but at CH that is a problem, so I will answer you here.
Let me state my points clearly. I noticed that several on CH were willing to and have called Kevin at Lectron to ask for pointers or other information; however I feel like you do, and no one ever called me to ask for additional advice or to let me answer any questions directly that certainly may have helped the evaluation process. No problem, I do think I heard Steve say you called him several times. To say all your posts were positive is simply not accurate, maybe the throwing it in the weeds statement, or something similar. All new things require a little patience and understanding, especially with fitment and best installation methods. But you felt the need to make the statement I guess. Also think you should re-read what I said, I think it's presumptuous on your part that you think I was on there just to bash Lectron.
The poor souls I am referring to (not you, john01 or vinduro) are the ones I feel sorry for who have either purchased a SmartCarb or have asked legitimate questions regarding the SC, but moderators will not post my replies (which I spent quite a bit of time answering only to find out they were not posted) Idacurt asked for my opinion on the differences, but guess what...? MattR finally copied a repost of the GG forum to answer the question. Believe me I have plenty of other things to do, so yes it pisses me off. It definitely seems to come across you are promoting Lectron, which is fine, but maybe you should consider some equity across the board, so if it has alienated your following it is CH's undoing not mine. Hard to address the topic directly when I can't even communicate on the forum. Kelly I think you are a very intelligent guy and certainly don't think you don't know anything, silent ally you are not. Anyway no hard feelings on this end and to those telling me to F off, well maybe they ought to consider my position, I'm making the rounds on over 20 open forums right now and am doing my best to answer questions, both pro and con and CafeHusky is the only one who has a problem with letting me answer questions that are not necessarily marketing. Yet pricing, options and quotes can be used for Lectron. Maybe I'm reading it all wrong.
Best wishes for the new year.
Corey
Last edited:
You are right Kelly saying "no point in being bitter" or at least posting a bitter response. I can see it being frustraiting though not being able to answer questions about your product when being asked. Kelly I don't think Cory meant to say Vinduro was a "whatever". I think he was trying to say "who ever" or "whomever". I hope he corrects me if I'm wrong. I like both sites as both have helped me a ton. Cory I personally think you should at least reconsider being a sponsor on CH. I think they are very fair and just don't want compaines that are not sponsors doing the free sales post; not saying you ever did. I truly feel you were just answering questions It may just be that they do take a long time review a post from a company. In any event this is just my .02.
Good stuff and like I said, no issues nor taking any of this personally.
Let me address a few things here. You seem real bent out of shape someone evaluated the Lectron. For the record I have NO connections at Lectron nor have I ever spoke to anyone but Vinduro. He is a customer of mine and contributor to CH and he simply offered me a Lectron carb he already had (and has been using them for 20 years) and was not using due to injury. He saw that I liked the metering rod design and also knew i had a simiar 165 husky to test it on. As he is laid up and will not get to use the Lectron until he heals and is back to racing I think in part he wanted me to test it and see if it worked good ont he 165 husky. Basically doing a use check as he will have little time and asked me to let him know the settings. Nothing more. I have received nothing from Lectron or APT nor have I spoke with anyone and am not biased ether way. I gushed about the APT and truly love it. I don't know how i could be more positive. Yes i said "I almost tossed it in the weeds" why? It was the truth. This was all explained WAY before I have even seen the Lectron. I was being honest and what good is a review without honesty. It was a simple matter of the cable retention. Others had no issues. I did and it came loose several times pissing me off. Is this going to keep people from buying your carb? Heck no. I think the 4 pages of info and endless Emails and PM's I get regarding this going to for sure sell a lot of your APT carbs.
As for CH you are missing completely something. You are a manufacturer posting about your products and on many sites that is advertising and not really allowed. I can openly speak about Lectron and APT as I have no connection with them but you cannot without being an advertiser. Most forums are this way, some are not. I am a sponsor on CH so I can speak freely on CH about my products. It is simply how it works. If every manufacture could just come on any site and spout whatever they wanted who would pay to advertise and keep these sites going? So there is no conspiracy or anything with APT, Lectron and CH. Zero. You are simply perceiving this. CH is a great site like this forum. No politics to get in the way and we like to dissect and talk about stuff. We talk about injectors, programmers, carbs, suspension and the info is endless there (like here for the GG dudes, thanks Jeff) If you feel compelled we would love you to be a contributor and poster on your APT carbs and I feel it would make a very positive impact on your sales. Just tout the merits of your amazing carb and leave it at that.
You did a great job of explaining your advantages and I tried to explain the best I could those as well. IMHO you should have left that there without the personal pokes and names. There are advantages and disadvantages to all products and people want real info to make choices. Its all good.
Thanks for your efforts and great product. Lets move forward and you should have no issues selling piles of carbs on the merits of the carb performance alone.
Kelly
Mz
I'm past being upset, and John you are correct, Kelly is reading more into it than what was said, I was certainly NOT trying to be disrespectful to any of the individuals on CH forum, the whatever was in reference to vinduro's credibility, which I do not know. Granted I was torqued at moderators (whom I was addressing) because I'm sitting there watching new posts pop up after I had spent A LOT OF TIME trying to answer a question, that I felt had a lot of relevance to the discussion at the time. Other's have jumped on and requoted answers off of other forums that could have been more specifically answered if Glenn would just allow my posts. Glenn and I have already had a lot of discussions regarding CH policy, so I get it.
Anyway let's respect the GG forum and take this discussion somewhere else. Kelly sent me an email this morning saying it might be best to discuss off the grid, which I answered. Then come over here and he posts it anyway. So it goes. Thanks John.
So now I am the issue here? OK I simply posted a fantastic review of a carb someone sent me. That's it. I also tested the Lectron, have a friend testing a TMxx with a new JD jetting kit. You tried to post things in forums that were not allowed, asked not to do that and did it some more. Then bashed the "poor souls at CH" after we had pages of info screaming from the tops of the hills how great your carb is. Play by the rules of the individual forums talk about your product without bashing other people or products (take the high road) and people will be all warm and fuzzy and buy your product. You have a fantastic product we all are touting for you. Let it happen.
I'll bow out now and let this get back on track.
thanks.
K
Thanks Corey!
I will say that everything you stated here is exactly what I was assuming and why I wasn't interested in zipping off an order to Lectron. I don't want to get in the middle of the CH issues. I really like it over there but understand your frustration. As a guy with the a Mechanical Engineering background, I love the simplistic elegance of the solutions your carb uses to correct the difficiencies of the standard carbs. I also don't want a float bowl drain as that defeats so much of the carbs design. Just incorporate a check valve to the inlet and I am good.
Thank you again for going to all the trouble of answering our questions.
Kelly, think about what you are saying. How is it possible to break the rules and post again in a forum where it wasn't posted in the first place? I felt bad for the "poor souls" who thought I was dissing them when I wasn't allowed to answer their questions. Nobody bashed Lectron. Let it go.
done.
I appreciate your last Email and it cleared some stuff up. The APT has a very bright future and is a fantastic product. I wish you very well with it.
Kelly
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Come on kids. Just say sorry, hug and make up. There is no point passing the blame back and forwarth or dictating how things should be. They are as they are. Just put the ego's aside for a moment.
Corey, I love everything I have heard about your product and have even put myself in the preorder list. I truly appreciate the time you take answering everyones questions. Please don't go and shoot yourself in the foot by being a goose about it all. From my 3rd party seat Kelly has just given you some constructive critizism and made some valid points. All you need to do is say thanks and take it on board. By trying to justify yourself you are just keeping the blame ball rolling and making yourself out to be one of those 'our products are the best, the rest are crap, what would you know anyway? your just a dumb customer!' type of people. In my experiences these sort of businesses quite often can have the best product, a wealth of knowledge, get good results, yet still miss a load of sales due to their attitude.
Sit back, relax, and let the APT Smartcarb sell itself (which it is).
Corey, I love everything I have heard about your product and have even put myself in the preorder list. I truly appreciate the time you take answering everyones questions. Please don't go and shoot yourself in the foot by being a goose about it all. From my 3rd party seat Kelly has just given you some constructive critizism and made some valid points. All you need to do is say thanks and take it on board. By trying to justify yourself you are just keeping the blame ball rolling and making yourself out to be one of those 'our products are the best, the rest are crap, what would you know anyway? your just a dumb customer!' type of people. In my experiences these sort of businesses quite often can have the best product, a wealth of knowledge, get good results, yet still miss a load of sales due to their attitude.
Sit back, relax, and let the APT Smartcarb sell itself (which it is).
Front Royalty
New member
The fact that Corey spends as much time as he does answering questions and offering support is the second largest reason I'm buying one. I have never seen the owner of a company take as much time with the customer as we have seen right here on this forum.
Reasons to buy:
1- no jetting changes!
2- excellent support
3- improved fuel economy, increased power and reliability
4- I heard a rumor premix smells delicious after being digested by a Smartcarb LOL
I'm sure there are many more...
What's not to love!
Reasons to buy:
1- no jetting changes!
2- excellent support
3- improved fuel economy, increased power and reliability
4- I heard a rumor premix smells delicious after being digested by a Smartcarb LOL
I'm sure there are many more...
What's not to love!
