The guide pins are pressed in. The Keihin floats will fit, but the plastic webbing support hits the bottom of the carb body. We are designing a POM material one piece float and are working on tooling.
APT SmartCarb
- Thread starter gasgasman
- Start date
The guide pins are pressed in. The Keihin floats will fit, but the plastic webbing support hits the bottom of the carb body. We are designing a POM material one piece float and are working on tooling.
Diggs345
Gold Level Site Supporter
Looking back through my mail you said the 3.5 needle and seat.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Thanks Corey! This conversation is really appreciated. Removing the smart carb is a bit of a chore, so if the new metering rod doesn't solve my issues I'll then move onto the floats again, although I checked and measured several times at initial install they could be playing up I guess. I'll have the shock removed for a revalve shortly so this will provide the opportunity to get to the carb. Two birds with one stone!
Jakobi
Super Moderator
It's the fuel
I wondered this myself. Every spec I have read for every brand of bike there appears to be notable differences in fuel requirements between the states and Aus/Europe. In saying that the Smart Carb should still be able to cover those variances with the same metering rod.
A 3.5 needle seat is headed your way, sent a week or so ago and is a step larger than your current float inlet seat. I'm still inclined to think that there is something in your current arrangement that is not letting the float needle come all the way off the seat, even though it's stacking up to the correct fuel height. Meaning some float inlet needles and seats seal better than others and you may have yours adjusted so as to hold the proper height, and not flood, but there may not be enough total travel in the floats to open the valve all the way, which slows down the fill rate. Also we have seen more than our share of bikes and quads that don't have adequate venting at the tank that can also slows down the fill rate of the bowl. Your current needle and seat (3.0) should be adequate as we have the same in bikes up to 500cc and lightly modified. Big bore open desert racing I recommend the 3.5 needle seat though.
Fred1956
New member
Jake has been posting stuff in this thread http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14515&page=20
Diggs345
Gold Level Site Supporter
I got my new needle and float valve today 
, thanks corey.
The needle is thicker at the top so i ended up making a new washer to fit that , then the indent screw had fallen to bits again and attemps to repair it as one of the other guys suggested rendered it useless .
Anyway i managed to install a small ball bearing and spring in there and it feels much better .
I set it to 58 clicks out which is around 99mm and the float to fill the bowl 18mm from the top .
, thanks corey.The needle is thicker at the top so i ended up making a new washer to fit that , then the indent screw had fallen to bits again and attemps to repair it as one of the other guys suggested rendered it useless .
Anyway i managed to install a small ball bearing and spring in there and it feels much better .
I set it to 58 clicks out which is around 99mm and the float to fill the bowl 18mm from the top .
Thanks for the pictures - my replacement parts are in the mail. Seems to be a different rod than the one Jakobi got since he didn't mention any modifications. The rod definitely looks more "production" (except for the labeling 
now, but things start to get confusing with the different versions.
Michael
now, but things start to get confusing with the different versions.Michael
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Bottom of page 19 on my thread..
And quoting Corey from another forum I frequent...
"No worries, yours were actually pretty mild. I've gotten used to the panic emails and sometimes venomous phone calls. I apologize I sent you the wrong dimensions knowing the new R080 rod is a little over 5mm longer. The angle is the same relationship as the original A100 Red and I arrived at for this family of carbs. I was always afraid of the A100 because in a 40mm if someone clicked the metering close to full rich it could come out of the nozzle and hang wide open.
Here's the deal on the metering rod length confusion. Our first run of billets all had A100 metering rods. The manufacturer informed us they would not do the retainer and threaded features because of their capabilities and process. OK...., so we wound up soldering tops onto them to make a complete metering rod to finish the build. The soldering process was not very precise length wise so some people wound up a 70 clicks and others at 55 or so.
Next go round we have new process metering rods made, called R080 but same length as original A100. We test a few variants find what we want and order 500. We make the drawings and the actual rod .200" to take care of the 40mm issue. The machine shop then promptly f*&@'s up the order and we receive L080's. (The difference between the R and L refers to rich and lean and has to do with where we locate the grind of the flat on the rod in relation to where we want the low speed settings to be. So...here we go again, we wind up sectioning the L080's to make R080's that we can sell. Again another tacky fix that is driving me completely insane.
Finally we have made a fixture that can replicate many metering rods at one time and for the first time we have metering rods that we can set in the same position, number of clicks and have uniformity across the board.
With all that said it has been made perfectly clear to us by KTM that what has limited them the most from adopting Lectron back in the day and clearly us today is that they simply could not get consistency across the board to be able to tell people you need 60 clicks or 40 or whatever. The tricky multi angles on a Lectron carb metering rod will in my opinion forever keep them from achieving this. The venturi signal density is the answer and the ability to run a single grind metering rod is a tremendous advantage and is necessary if we have any hope to compete emissions wise with FI.
Let me know your final setting with that funky fuel from down unda"
And quoting Corey from another forum I frequent...
"No worries, yours were actually pretty mild. I've gotten used to the panic emails and sometimes venomous phone calls. I apologize I sent you the wrong dimensions knowing the new R080 rod is a little over 5mm longer. The angle is the same relationship as the original A100 Red and I arrived at for this family of carbs. I was always afraid of the A100 because in a 40mm if someone clicked the metering close to full rich it could come out of the nozzle and hang wide open.
Here's the deal on the metering rod length confusion. Our first run of billets all had A100 metering rods. The manufacturer informed us they would not do the retainer and threaded features because of their capabilities and process. OK...., so we wound up soldering tops onto them to make a complete metering rod to finish the build. The soldering process was not very precise length wise so some people wound up a 70 clicks and others at 55 or so.
Next go round we have new process metering rods made, called R080 but same length as original A100. We test a few variants find what we want and order 500. We make the drawings and the actual rod .200" to take care of the 40mm issue. The machine shop then promptly f*&@'s up the order and we receive L080's. (The difference between the R and L refers to rich and lean and has to do with where we locate the grind of the flat on the rod in relation to where we want the low speed settings to be. So...here we go again, we wind up sectioning the L080's to make R080's that we can sell. Again another tacky fix that is driving me completely insane.
Finally we have made a fixture that can replicate many metering rods at one time and for the first time we have metering rods that we can set in the same position, number of clicks and have uniformity across the board.
With all that said it has been made perfectly clear to us by KTM that what has limited them the most from adopting Lectron back in the day and clearly us today is that they simply could not get consistency across the board to be able to tell people you need 60 clicks or 40 or whatever. The tricky multi angles on a Lectron carb metering rod will in my opinion forever keep them from achieving this. The venturi signal density is the answer and the ability to run a single grind metering rod is a tremendous advantage and is necessary if we have any hope to compete emissions wise with FI.
Let me know your final setting with that funky fuel from down unda"
Servus,
It's a bit hard to tell from your picture, but your A100 seems different on top to Diggs and mine - I definitely have the "small diameter top" version. Also from what I gathered in your other post the new R080 does make a difference in performance to the original A100 so we'll never know what the real difference is - a defective rod or changes in dimension?
What disturbs me most is that APT sold those billets as "ready to go" product while in reality some parts are still in development stage and they just kept their fingers crossed hoping that nobody would notice. I still would have bought the SC if they sold it as pre-production or beta version with all the information that is now tediously collected here in the forums provided by APT on an update basis. The concept is good, the billet SC is a good base, but the way APT has handled this in public could have been much better. The individual support by APT is excellent though and nobody can say they are not trying hard.
Michael
It's a bit hard to tell from your picture, but your A100 seems different on top to Diggs and mine - I definitely have the "small diameter top" version. Also from what I gathered in your other post the new R080 does make a difference in performance to the original A100 so we'll never know what the real difference is - a defective rod or changes in dimension?
What disturbs me most is that APT sold those billets as "ready to go" product while in reality some parts are still in development stage and they just kept their fingers crossed hoping that nobody would notice. I still would have bought the SC if they sold it as pre-production or beta version with all the information that is now tediously collected here in the forums provided by APT on an update basis. The concept is good, the billet SC is a good base, but the way APT has handled this in public could have been much better. The individual support by APT is excellent though and nobody can say they are not trying hard.
Michael
Diggs345
Gold Level Site Supporter
The old rod was two parts brazed together , I had to drill out the thread in the cylinder peice to get the spring an ball to fit then , I then used a centre punch to mark the bottom to stop the ball falling out and tapped a oversize bolt in the top before cutting it off flush , it seems to work much better than before too .
I was going to put it in your thread jake but wasn't sure you would be happy with that .
Maybee it would be good to start a fresh smart carb tuning thread .
I was going to put it in your thread jake but wasn't sure you would be happy with that .
Maybee it would be good to start a fresh smart carb tuning thread .
Jakobi
Super Moderator
I'm easy Diggs.. Here, there, or in another thread. Very interested to see your fix for the clicker. I have a feeling its only a matter of time before mine does something similar.
My old metering rod wasn't stamped A100 like yours, and wasn't noticeably thinner at the top. Not that I can remember. There was some evidence of it being braised though, and quite a bit of wear in this area. Its possible this 2nd metering rod is the same profile as my last, just longer. I'm starting to go through the same thing where the more I ride the more it leans off. It doesn't seem to have the big bog that the original had though.
I agree with you entirely Michael. I'm happy with the level of service I've been receiving and that Corey is willing to work with us to resolve these issues. I'd be very disappointed if I was a 17 year old who saved every penny for one of these and then found out I had to be doing all this tinkering when I was promised plug and play. I also wonder how many of these finer issues will be resolved prior to the cast rollout. I don't imagine APT will want to be dealing with a large number of busted clicker units. I'd say they'll have the MR pretty much standardised by then judging from the above.
My old metering rod wasn't stamped A100 like yours, and wasn't noticeably thinner at the top. Not that I can remember. There was some evidence of it being braised though, and quite a bit of wear in this area. Its possible this 2nd metering rod is the same profile as my last, just longer. I'm starting to go through the same thing where the more I ride the more it leans off. It doesn't seem to have the big bog that the original had though.
I agree with you entirely Michael. I'm happy with the level of service I've been receiving and that Corey is willing to work with us to resolve these issues. I'd be very disappointed if I was a 17 year old who saved every penny for one of these and then found out I had to be doing all this tinkering when I was promised plug and play. I also wonder how many of these finer issues will be resolved prior to the cast rollout. I don't imagine APT will want to be dealing with a large number of busted clicker units. I'd say they'll have the MR pretty much standardised by then judging from the above.
Diggs345
Gold Level Site Supporter
Put the carb back on today , my clicker mod has worked vey well , on the 12 the frame is in the way to get a good grip on the clicker screw , before it was hard to turn as the tiny clicker was falling into the slots and it was hard for them to come back out , if you look closer at the above pics you will see mine has worn a groove , my new mod gives a nice positive click as you turn , it's also better to turn .
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