Future GG - what would you specify ?

[Rod Overstreet]

Almost - the base RRs with an updated Sachs OC have been here since August.

Now I'm totally confused...

 

[3beejay3]

It's a shame to see the Marz 48's go. I got to ride a 14 demo bike with House of Horsepower progressive springs in it and they were great! Even better than the 48's on my 2011 with progressive springs. I guess they did some valving changes because the ones on the 14 were worlds better. The Reiger Shock worked quite well too!


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My understanding is that Beta bought the Marz 48 CC/PFP design from Marzocchi and will be using it going forward.

I've rode several 2015 demo Betas with the reg Sach fork and was not really impressed with the stock setup. Granted they weren't setup for me at all, they seemed kinda harsh and a bit vague, with the exception of the setup on the 390. It was bang on, which was weird because the distributor said they were all setup the same......

 

[swazi_matt]

There is a lot of available space in the airbox, it would be nice if they built a tool compartment into it that could be accessed from outside

 

[Rod Overstreet]

I'd prefer a Smart Carb instead. Rode a bike with one and was very impressed. Have one on the way for my '12.

Simple clean design, with only one or two things to adjust & once set up, just leave it alone.

I hope you will let us know how the Smart Carb works out for you. More so, if it improves your mileage. Thanks!

 

[Danj56]

How about a kick stand that doesn't break off after a month.

 

[FDB]

I dunno guys. Im on a 2012 ec300. We ride from the fast stuff to rocks. The bikes are pretty damn good as they are. Can only imagine what the 2015 models must be like.
I would suggest one thing. If they do a new frame, try and make it so it comes out with a thick seat, or a big indent under the seat giving it more airbox volume, but you can opt for a normal seat that would make the seatheight around 40mm or 2 inches lower. Many shorter guys struggle in the tech riding. Coming into the market with an oem lowerable seat option is unique and will pull some sales numbers. Hope im making sense

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[Rod Overstreet]

I dunno guys. Im on a 2012 ec300. We ride from the fast stuff to rocks. The bikes are pretty damn good as they are. Can only imagine what the 2015 models must be like.
I would suggest one thing. If they do a new frame, try and make it so it comes out with a thick seat, or a big indent under the seat giving it more airbox volume, but you can opt for a normal seat that would make the seatheight around 40mm or 2 inches lower. Many shorter guys struggle in the tech riding. Coming into the market with an oem lowerable seat option is unique and will pull some sales numbers. Hope im making sense

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To clarify...the new frame mentioned is the same design but a bit lighter supposedly, and beefed up at certain points. Guts makes a lower seat foam for the bikes, but its not enough to make a very drastic change when you have to dab in the rocks IMO. You could also have the biked "lowered" by modifying the suspension. I'm sure someone like Les or Richard Wilson would be happy to assist.

 

[FDB]

No no. You misunderstood. Im fine on my bike. What im saying is..
The market needs a bike with a lower seatheight but not lower ground clearance or dropped suspension or a shaved seat.
So.
IF they do a complete new frame design, they should keep that in mind. Make the part of the frame that holds the seat up lower. 40mm lower in the mid area. Then. Make the plastic base of the oem seat so you fan fit the battery almost flush under it. Then. Make another seat as optional that mounts flat on the frame where the battery pushes into the airbox as they do now.
Configuration 1 gives you more airbox volume with standard seat height. Option 2 gives you current aitbox volum but a seatheight that is 40mm lower.
All this by just changing seat to a different option. No cutting. No suspension lowering links nothing.
Hope im making sense now

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[3beejay3]

No no. You misunderstood. Im fine on my bike. What im saying is..
The market needs a bike with a lower seatheight but not lower ground clearance or dropped suspension or a shaved seat.
So.
IF they do a complete new frame design, they should keep that in mind. Make the part of the frame that holds the seat up lower. 40mm lower in the mid area. Then. Make the plastic base of the oem seat so you fan fit the battery almost flush under it. Then. Make another seat as optional that mounts flat on the frame where the battery pushes into the airbox as they do now.
Configuration 1 gives you more airbox volume with standard seat height. Option 2 gives you current aitbox volum but a seatheight that is 40mm lower.
All this by just changing seat to a different option. No cutting. No suspension lowering links nothing.
Hope im making sense now

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I've often thought this as well. There should be an adjustable seatheight avail. on dirtbikes Granted there's not a lot room to work with, but an inch makes a big difference for many people.

 

[Jakobi]

I'll rock the boat and disagree. I'm 175cm (and legs shorter than they should be). I don't get the fuss with the seat height. You ride on the pegs, you don't touch the ground. If you ride rough technical ground it's uneven - meaning you should have raised areas where you can touch easily, and others that you won't/wouldn't even with a lower seat.

Sometimes I have trouble getting my leg back over the bike if I've stopped somewhere silly, but it's no fault of my own.

Also, I find the GG already realistically has one of the lowest seat heights of all manufacturers.

 

[Rod Overstreet]

I'll rock the boat and disagree. I'm 175cm (and legs shorter than they should be). I don't get the fuss with the seat height. You ride on the pegs, you don't touch the ground. If you ride rough technical ground it's uneven - meaning you should have raised areas where you can touch easily, and others that you won't/wouldn't even with a lower seat.

Sometimes I have trouble getting my leg back over the bike if I've stopped somewhere silly, but it's no fault of my own.

Also, I find the GG already realistically has one of the lowest seat heights of all manufacturers.

I agree as well. I'm 5'6 now (used to be 5'8, what the heck happened doc?) and my inseam is 28 inches. Yes...I am short but I don't have issues with seat height on the Gas Gas. I DO have issues sometimes with the low ground clearance though. And if you think the Gasser is tall...go check out the new Yamaha YZ50FX. I cannot touch the ground when sitting on it.

 

[Mick]

I've often thought this as well. There should be an adjustable seatheight avail. on dirtbikes Granted there's not a lot room to work with, but an inch makes a big difference for many people.

The Triumph Tiger 800's have an adjustable height seat, it is pretty slick...not much to it. Though...how often to you adjust the seat, basically do it once..and never touch again...that is why they sell different height seats.

Would be cool if there was a seat pan that had an area for a tool wrap, but that is me just getting old and wanting weight off my back.

 

[FDB]

A lower seat in hard technical terrain can mean the difference between falling over a lot and wasting valuable energy and not. You simply cannot always stand. Not even Walker or Jarvis always stand. Yes i agree. For general trails and stuff a high seatheight is no biggie. But the in your face constant rocks we ride is a different story.
Im simply saying having the option to have a lower seatheight is something unique. Something GG can look at to cut into the market. Many lady riders would ho GG simply for the lower seat too. Its a marketing thing. Many tech riders would give GG a second look just for the lower seat height.

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[3beejay3]

I agree as well. I'm 5'6 now (used to be 5'8, what the heck happened doc?) and my inseam is 28 inches. Yes...I am short but I don't have issues with seat height on the Gas Gas. I DO have issues sometimes with the low ground clearance though. And if you think the Gasser is tall...go check out the new Yamaha YZ50FX. I cannot touch the ground when sitting on it.

I'm on the shorter side as well, at 5'-8" and am quite fine with the stock seat height on my bike 99% of the time. However, when I get into nasty stuff an extra inch can usually mean the difference between being stuck or still moving forward, or not falling over.
The real issue is for newer riders, who haven't mastered the stuff we take for granted. My first year back into this sport, having been away for 23 years, I struggled with the height of the bikes and had to lower the seat with a Corbin and rear suspension, via lowering link on my DRZ. It made the difference til I could build up some skills. After a year I was fine and bought a Husky and left it stock. As also with every bike since.
People don't like having to lower the suspension, as it is expensive when the forks and shock need to come apart to do it, and it has negative compromises. I hated the lowering link I used, but it's what I needed at the time. I would have preferred to do it just with the seat if possible.
When I go ride the rocks, which is usually only once a year, if I could drop my seat height an inch or so at the trail head, the wrenches would be coming out.

I also ride with tall people. They would love to have a seat that adjusts UP as well...

 

[Buysomerice]

I just hope they come up with solutions that are backwards compatible. It would be sweet to see some of the minor fixes and be able to throw them on your older 12'+ bike. Happier older model owners equal more bike sold later I bet.

 

[Rod Overstreet]

I'm on the shorter side as well, at 5'-8" and am quite fine with the stock seat height on my bike 99% of the time. However, when I get into nasty stuff an extra inch can usually mean the difference between being stuck or still moving forward, or not falling over.
The real issue is for newer riders, who haven't mastered the stuff we take for granted. My first year back into this sport, having been away for 23 years, I struggled with the height of the bikes and had to lower the seat with a Corbin and rear suspension, via lowering link on my DRZ. It made the difference til I could build up some skills. After a year I was fine and bought a Husky and left it stock. As also with every bike since.
People don't like having to lower the suspension, as it is expensive when the forks and shock need to come apart to do it, and it has negative compromises. I hated the lowering link I used, but it's what I needed at the time. I would have preferred to do it just with the seat if possible.
When I go ride the rocks, which is usually only once a year, if I could drop my seat height an inch or so at the trail head, the wrenches would be coming out.

I also ride with tall people. They would love to have a seat that adjusts UP as well...

So the question is now, how much a difference would there really be, if there were an adjustable seat height option, in actually LOWERING the height? An inch? Now...would the majority of the customer base be willing to pay a higher MSRP for a bike with this option?

 

[phoenix]

A lower seat in hard technical terrain can mean the difference between falling over a lot and wasting valuable energy and not. You simply cannot always stand. Not even Walker or Jarvis always stand. Yes i agree. For general trails and stuff a high seatheight is no biggie. But the in your face constant rocks we ride is a different story.
Im simply saying having the option to have a lower seatheight is something unique. Something GG can look at to cut into the market. Many lady riders would ho GG simply for the lower seat too. Its a marketing thing. Many tech riders would give GG a second look just for the lower seat height.

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I'm 5'6" female and love my Gas Gas. I can't flat foot on both sides of the bike, but if that ever happened I would probably feel really cramped on the bike. I actually lowered my 2013 GG 300 and liked it at first (the bike was heavier, so dropping it was more of a to-do and I thought lowering might help that), but ended up hating it after a while. The GG is definitely lower and that is appealing to me, but I wouldn't want it any shorter, personally. BUT, I wouldn't want it any taller, either!

I think you're right-on about ladies and Gas Gasses, though. I did an enduro last weekend and 3 out of 4 ladies in my class were on Gas Gasses..pretty cool! We had a 2011 and two 2014s I think.

 

[Chaz955i]

Don't fix what isn't broken. I ride a 2013 which I think is a fundamentally great off road bike (I don't race) that was shorted on the development side. Get the weight competitive with other bikes in the class. I think it was Rod who mentioned the ridiculous amount of plastic on the bike and boat anchor swingarm. Some backwards compatibility is a plus. Make sure e-start not only works but is bulletproof. A lot of this could be applied to the current platform. I don't think the new owners need to reinvent the wheel.

Do a BYOB program similar to Beta. A guy like me could easily live with a few bucks left in pocket by going with standard suspension and less frills. Other people can save time by having all the extras included in the price of the bike. Makes things easier for the folks trying to finance a $10,000 dirt bike. Capitalize on the things a smaller company can do that a larger one cannot.

Create a solid support system for distributors and the dealer network. Being a small company is no longer a valid excuse.

 

[shang]

I've owned enough bikes to know they will all have some issues. I absolutely love my '13 300. The only thing I would really want to change is bringing the weight down a little. It doesn't have to be as light as a 300xc. I think the weight contributes to the solid feel the bike has on almost all terrain, but it should be lighter than it is now.

Oh, and standardize the fastener sizes throughout the bike.

 

[barossi73]

Get some loctite into the assembly line!
Factory rad braces would be nice(why does noone do this?)