Vindicator
New member
Did you service the forks yourself ? If so, go back and adjust the PFP shaft properly, take a look here http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11075&page=23
Marzocchi 48mm CC Forks
- Thread starter SolidPerformance
- Start date
Did you service the forks yourself ? If so, go back and adjust the PFP shaft properly, take a look here http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11075&page=23
Vindicator
New member
Glad it workout for you . In any case check the zokes manual, it's in one of this posts somewhere, I think it's 26 or 24 clicks total .
Jakobi
Super Moderator
One more quick question. Midvalve - Whats the easiest way to remove the lower part of the cart shaft? I have a shaft holder here, but is it required? Also, are the stacks peened over? I won't be cracking into that today, but will in the next round of days off. Would like to be aware before I go all out on it though.
twowheels
New member
Ah, the mystery of where the fork fluid goes ... I've noticed this even when the seals are absolutely, positively NOT leaking.
wence
Bronze Level Site Supporter
Mine was 100 or so ml less also.
I rang the suspension shop and they said that was what they put in????
I have since filled them and sorted them correctly so we'll see how we go in a few weeks when I do it again before Finke.
Cheers Mark
Jakobi
Super Moderator
This is my first service with only 13hrs on them from new. The oil was a little contaminated, but not real bad. Its hard to beleive they would have lost 50cc of oil in that time.
The rebound assembly comes off similar to a KYB/Showa with a locnut. No reverse threads or anything strange. I did notice that one of the small lock screws that hold the ball and spring for the clicker was only finger tight and it appeared that the blue loctite used at the factory had been penetrated by oil. The other is nice and firm. Both rebound assembleys required some heat to break the loctite after backing off the locnut.
I wriggled one of the spring guides down to check the position of the preload circlip. 2nd from the top. They are a super snug fit, however as it came down there was quite a few metal shavings under there. Definitely something to keep an eye on. Is it possible to remove the complete guide? As you slide it towards the bottom of the cart it begins to firm up again. I'll measure the preload and spring lengths and may compare against the Ohlins springs I have.
Definitely looking at doing something with the rebound stack. Whats the torque on the midvalve retainer?
The rebound assembly comes off similar to a KYB/Showa with a locnut. No reverse threads or anything strange. I did notice that one of the small lock screws that hold the ball and spring for the clicker was only finger tight and it appeared that the blue loctite used at the factory had been penetrated by oil. The other is nice and firm. Both rebound assembleys required some heat to break the loctite after backing off the locnut.
I wriggled one of the spring guides down to check the position of the preload circlip. 2nd from the top. They are a super snug fit, however as it came down there was quite a few metal shavings under there. Definitely something to keep an eye on. Is it possible to remove the complete guide? As you slide it towards the bottom of the cart it begins to firm up again. I'll measure the preload and spring lengths and may compare against the Ohlins springs I have.
Definitely looking at doing something with the rebound stack. Whats the torque on the midvalve retainer?
Simmo737
Gold Level Site Supporter
Ah, the mystery of where the fork fluid goes ... I've noticed this even when the seals are absolutely, positively NOT leaking.
I noticed it too. Spooky. I have what mine was written down somewhere, I think it was quite a difference btw the legs too.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
I've pulled mine down for round two of revalve. Lost 25ml of oil in 2 rides. Still pulled 200ml out of the inner carts so it hasn't gone in there. Who knwos?
Now heres another riddle. First time in I had the PFP wound full in to give better clearance when using the BV removal tool. This time I decided to back them out for evaluation. Both still have a total of 26 clicks on the shaft, however the ICS spring has 7mm of free play with the PFP backed off. Same on both sides, and I have never touched either of these.
Is this an 'upgrade' from the earlier ones? Do I just have shorter springs??
Now heres another riddle. First time in I had the PFP wound full in to give better clearance when using the BV removal tool. This time I decided to back them out for evaluation. Both still have a total of 26 clicks on the shaft, however the ICS spring has 7mm of free play with the PFP backed off. Same on both sides, and I have never touched either of these.
Is this an 'upgrade' from the earlier ones? Do I just have shorter springs??
Vindicator
New member
I had a talk with a suspension expert 
and the mystery of the oil might be related to having the outer chamber oil mixing with the inner chamber . This might happen on fast /big compression hits where your fork compresses all the way down. The kind and amount of pressure this generates makes some of the outer oil to pass through the seal on the rebound shaft . There's now an excess of oil in the inner cartridge making the PFP piston to rise above the 7mm standard preload. This oil will be naturally purged along your ride when the PFP is pushed back and travels through the shaft recess . Remember Leo's example. He would bleed the cartridge by overfilling it and forcing the PFP all the way back pass through the recess to expel excess oil . According to the expert, this is very common in Showa's, does not mean there's anything wrong .
This also explains why, when servicing the forks, both cartridges are always off balance when tested before replacing the oil even though I was certain to have them fully equal by measuring the rebound speed side to side . Usually one shows more rebound speed than the other. This is because it has more oil than the other. And no, I don't have a leak on the seals .
This does not explains the sloppy work at factory when initially set. Forget about that and service your forks as soon you can.
Jakobi,
Not sure you have any upgraded parts but I also have some play on the spring but nothing outstanding .
and the mystery of the oil might be related to having the outer chamber oil mixing with the inner chamber . This might happen on fast /big compression hits where your fork compresses all the way down. The kind and amount of pressure this generates makes some of the outer oil to pass through the seal on the rebound shaft . There's now an excess of oil in the inner cartridge making the PFP piston to rise above the 7mm standard preload. This oil will be naturally purged along your ride when the PFP is pushed back and travels through the shaft recess . Remember Leo's example. He would bleed the cartridge by overfilling it and forcing the PFP all the way back pass through the recess to expel excess oil . According to the expert, this is very common in Showa's, does not mean there's anything wrong .This also explains why, when servicing the forks, both cartridges are always off balance when tested before replacing the oil even though I was certain to have them fully equal by measuring the rebound speed side to side . Usually one shows more rebound speed than the other. This is because it has more oil than the other. And no, I don't have a leak on the seals .
This does not explains the sloppy work at factory when initially set. Forget about that and service your forks as soon you can.
Jakobi,
Not sure you have any upgraded parts but I also have some play on the spring but nothing outstanding .
Vindicator
New member
After a couple of rides fiddling with clickers and changing my rebound stack to :
Rebound
12 x 0,10
2x20 x 0,10 (added another 20 x 0,10 shim)
18 x 0,10
14 x 0,10
I'm pretty satisfied with the result. I will post my settings later, don't have it with me now .
My suspension is now firm but not stiff, trail junk does not bother me at all , it's quite plush on most of my trail areas but I still get some discomfort on high speed square edge hits. Overall I'm quite happy with this fork for my type and riding skill .
wence
Bronze Level Site Supporter
Jakobi
Super Moderator
These forks are still hard to bleed up, even following the procedure here. All it takes is for a little air to be trapped under the piston. I think that over filling and then getting the final blast/bleed is the best bet. I just did a run at 130mm from top and got a short blast of oil when doing the fast bottom. Everything was working as you'd imagine it would from PFP to all the clickers. As the final test, I inverted the cartridge and then cycled it. From that point on it was all milkshakes!
VxZeroKnots
Gold Level Site Supporter
I followed GMP's advice on bleeding the cart but used a 140mm oil height as per the manual and it went back together nice and easy. Rebound speed was the same in both legs and they had full travel.
This thread is the go to on these forks for sure.
That PFP tool looks awesome, going to have to whip one up.
Thanks everyone for posting in this great resource.
This thread is the go to on these forks for sure.
That PFP tool looks awesome, going to have to whip one up.
Thanks everyone for posting in this great resource.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
The one I played with went back together nice and easy and did everything the way you'd expect until turned upside down allowing the air to travel back through the valving. I'm going to spend a day 'playing' and see just how well I can get one bled.
Jim Cook
Platinum Level Site Supporter
No offense intended to anyone, but this thread is one of the reasons that I bought my bike, which came equipped with the older style 45mm 'Zoke forks.
They are quick and easy to work on, with no "headaches" involved; and after my suspension guru modified them for me, they work like magic in the rocks and mountain singletrack.
I loved them on my 2006 DE300 (after modification by the same suspension guru), and I love the way they work on the new bike. (bought last May)
They are quick and easy to work on, with no "headaches" involved; and after my suspension guru modified them for me, they work like magic in the rocks and mountain singletrack.
I loved them on my 2006 DE300 (after modification by the same suspension guru), and I love the way they work on the new bike. (bought last May)
